AI Without the “Slop” with Brandon Cardet-Hernandez of Medley Learning

Brandon Cardet-Hernandez is the Founder and CEO of Medley Learning, a platform building AI-powered scaffolding tools for multilingual learners. A former multilingual learner himself, Brandon has served as a teacher, turnaround principal, Boston School Committee member, NYC education advisor, and edtech leader. His work focuses on closing the access gap, not lowering expectations.

💡 5 Things You’ll Learn in This Episode:

1. Why education has an access gap, not just an achievement gap
2. The dangers of over-scaffolding and “AI slop”
3. How AI can embed rigor without lowering standards
4. A new workflow for supporting multilingual learners
5. Why implementation determines impact

✨ Episode Highlights:
[00:01:58] Brandon’s journey and the educators who changed his life
[00:10:50] The “ELL trap” and lowering cognitive demand
[00:15:11] Student-controlled, embedded scaffolds in real time
[00:23:58] Why strong district champions matter for implementation
[00:27:24] AI’s promise: turning research into daily practice
[00:30:02] The risk of “AI slop” in classrooms
[00:31:52] Building AI policy around knowledge not fear 

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: I think the thing that worries me the most and maybe worries you is a lot of AI slop. It is like not AI for good. It is the process of releveling text and really lowering rigor as a way of creating, and I'm using quotes here for folks listening, like access points for kids. That makes me really nervous.

[00:00:30] Alex Sarlin: Welcome to EdTech Insiders, the top podcast covering the education technology industry from funding rounds to impact to AI developments across early childhood K 12 higher ed and work. You'll find it all here at EdTech Insiders. 

[00:00:45] Ben Kornell: Remember to subscribe to the pod. Check out our newsletter and also our event calendar.

And to go deeper, check out EdTech Insiders Plus where you can get premium content access to our WhatsApp channel, early access to events and back channel insights from Alex and Ben. Hope you enjoyed today's pod.

Hello, EdTech Insider listeners. We have a special guest, Brandon Cardet-Hernandez founder and CEO of Medley Learning. Medley is building digital scaffolding tools that help multilingual learners across grade level content. A former multilingual learner himself. Brandon has worked across the system from teacher and turnaround principal to education advisor to Mayor Bill de Blasio, and EdTech leader at Mrs.

Wordsmith. Welcome to the pod, Brandon. 

[00:01:39] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Thank you so much for having me. 

[00:01:41] Ben Kornell: Before we jump in, just tell us a little bit about your journey. You've experienced the education system from so many angles, student, teacher, principal, policymaker, and now. Founder. Tell us about that journey and how did that lead you to starting a, a startup focused on multilingual learners?

[00:01:58] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: I appreciate the question. The work for me feels really personal as you shared. I started my journey in learning as a multilingual learner myself, but I also started with pretty humble beginnings. Often not different from a lot of the students who sit in our classrooms across the K to 12 systems. I am the son of immigrants.

Both of my parents were incarcerated and I grew up surfing couches, group homes, all the stuff with family, really trying to figure out who I was and make the most of it. But what was a real differentiator for me, I think why we get to have this conversation today, a recognition that like these outcomes that I've been able to generate are somewhat statistically significant given the starting point.

But the reason I got here is 'cause of education. I had teachers who could really lean in. They cared about me deeply. They helped me see myself. They had time and bandwidth to know me in a deep way, in a meaningful way, in a safe way. And at the same time, I was given academic challenges that allowed me to excel, that gave me opportunities to engage with.

Rigorous content. And that in turn allowed me to feel really smart and see myself as a person who could do things and get things done. And so subsequently, I have spent my whole career, I think, on one part, answering the question of like, how did I get here? Uh, recognition that, again, it's so different than a lot of the folks I grew up with and where I started, including my siblings.

And at the same time, how do I make sure that I'm not the only one sitting at a table where a story like mine feels so unique? And so I have been trying to solve problems in education from inside out and now outside in for the last 20 plus years. And it has been an honor and a thrill, and it's great to get to talk to you about it today.

[00:03:45] Ben Kornell: So inspiring and relatable to so many of us who've had a teacher, a school, an experience that literally changed our life trajectory. Can you talk a little bit about why multilingual learners? Why do they face unique challenges? Mm-hmm. And also from an instructional strategy standpoint. What are the unique challenges of meeting the needs of multilingual learners?

[00:04:07] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Yeah, I think two things, and not to be political, but it would be hard to have this conversation in a moment that doesn't recognize the reality of our current context, particularly in the US many immigrant and. Undocumented families obviously feel a lot of uncertainty right now in schools that is showing up as chronic absenteeism, disengagement, and obviously kids just carrying stress that they shouldn't have to carry.

And so again, not to make it a partisan issue, I'm here to stay students. Center, that's what I do. Mm-hmm. But every child deserves access to a great public education. Mm-hmm. And that's been settled in law for decades. And schools have a really clear obligation to remove language barriers so students and their families can participate in a meaningful way.

And at the same time, our schools have been stretched really thin, so we need practical tools that help teachers deliver grade level instruction with language scaffolds, which I'm sure we'll talk about later without adding hours to their day. I actually talked about earlier. The big differentiator for me was a really healthy, meaningful relationships with adults, and I think good ed tech helps remove the administrative burdens of teaching so that those relationships can be centered.

I think all of our kids need it right now in the context of multilingual learners. I think we are experiencing a real intensity there. And then I'll just end here at the same time. We've spent a lot of time, I think system-wide. This is not school specific. Your school over there maybe doing something really different.

But I think if we look at the challenge globally, we spent a lot of time thinking about the support and service for multilingual learners, ESL students, whatever you want to call us in the ecosystem. We spent a lot of time thinking about compliance and seeing us as a compliance burden instead of an instructional.

Exact same moment. We know we can't hire our way out of the growth of multilingual learners across our system. We actually have to build tools that raise the performance outcomes of multilingual learners. So we can see system-wide change across the ecosystem. 

[00:06:16] Ben Kornell: There's also been a lot of history here where.

Schools are more of a sorting hat where they're sorting out students based on characteristics or features. And you know, as somebody who taught newcomers myself, the idea that your learning proficiency and your language proficiency are totally linked comes from that kind of sorting hat mentality. What you're really pushing on for Medley Learning is an integrated scaffolded approach.

Can you talk a little bit about how multilingual learners can access grade level content while still developing language proficiency? And then where are schools kind of struggling the most in delivering that? Is it administrative? Is it the compliance burden? Is it actually in day-to-day instruction? Is it in materials?

Like where are the real barriers? 

[00:07:07] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Yeah, so this is the parts of our AI ecosystem that also gets me really excited. I'm not the first to say this. I think we have had this conversation. You've had this conversation for sure around the science of reading. We know that there is sort of the research to reality gap in our K to 12 system.

So the research has been here for a really long time. There's. Decades of research on best practice ML pedagogy. This is not a Brandon Hernandez new idea. The ability to bring that into practice has actually, and at scale has truly been the struggle. And so we know that we can give students an opportunity to access grade level text by building in the right supports into that text.

Some of that is instructional strategies around direct translation. When it's appropriate and supports by literacy at the same time. And then also fading those supports. So like the support I give you when you're just starting your English language learning development is really different than what happens when you've been here for years and have been working on that skill.

And at the same time, there's things that start to look similar across it. From text chunking to bolding complex words so I can stop and take a beat with it. Creating supports around a particularly complex word, so it gives me more information to make sense of it, to audio supports, whether that's in my native language or in English.

There's a bunch of ways we can realize that teachers spend hours doing that. I think there's a few pieces here to get to the part of your question. I think sometimes we just have a misalignment around responsibility. So general education teachers in our K to 12 system owns the content and specialists own the language.

And the reality is our kids live both. And so we need educators who are holding both. And what we need, and this is why we built Medley, are solutions that can help integrate those two spaces so that we're not creating segregated learning experiences for kids. But if we really think. Language acquisition happens in English and happens in math, which I do.

Then we have to create the supports within them. This is where tech can come in really handy when we don't have the human capital to do it. And then I think at the same time, there is the idea that support is separate, which I was sort of starting to lean into that like pullouts and translations instead of embedded scaffolds in a core lesson.

That those are enough to get us where we need our young people to be. And we know from the research that that's just not true. I think too, I'm a dad and an educator, so I hold this and I hold this as sometimes my pitfall as a dad. Like sometimes we just wanna give the young person everything. And what we know has happened is an over scaffolding as well as an over translation trap that has really held young people back from excelling.

And now that is coming from a very good place. We want you to have everything you need, and at the same time, I am reducing rigor. I am lowering your productive struggle, and I'm decreasing cognitive demand. While trying to give you the same exact tools and resources you had when you first started learning English as you have five years later, and then I will just end here.

I think there's an inconsistency in language objectives so kids don't get that daily structured speaking, writing, reading opportunities in a way that allows them to grapple in a meaningful way. At the proficiency level where they're at, and again, this is just an opportunity to do that better. It's not that teachers don't care, it's just that the supports aren't sitting inside the materials they teach, and that's where tech can help us right now.

That's what Medley was born to do. 

[00:10:50] Ben Kornell: Gosh, man, I have a ton of questions and having taught myself, I remember there was this ELD trap where basically kids were never assessed at ELD and kind of stuck in that continuous ELD one, two or three bucket. I guess some of what you're talking about though is a shift of responsibility.

And a new workflow where we have a segregated workflow today. Now it's a merged workflow, but of course the reality is that teachers have so much on their plate, not only with differentiation around language, but differentiation around all the different levels of proficiency in their classroom. Paint the picture of what is the new.

Teacher workflow actually look like in the modern world. What is the teacher holding? What is the curriculum holding itself? What is that coach doing? Like, can you just paint the picture of where we're headed? 

[00:11:45] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Yeah, I'll start to, just in case the listener doesn't have the context of ELDs, what we're talking about is long-term ls, which is real.

Those are young folks who have been on their language proficiency journey for over six years. It's like a real classification. We have states where that's half of all Ls. We have states we're averaging 25%. It varies across states, but this is a really, it's a universal problem. Our broader instructional ecosystem.

[00:12:13] Ben Kornell: I mean, I remember Jordan Morans at Elevation, I don't know, it must have been 15 years ago. 

[00:12:19] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Yeah. 

[00:12:20] Ben Kornell: Was just seeing this trap where kids are just stuck in ELL classes and this idea of over scaffolding and how do you find that right balance. To basically meet them in their zone of proximal development and find productive struggle rather than peer struggle.

This is the universal challenge of teaching and learning in our moment. 

[00:12:41] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Yeah, you're absolutely right. And as I think about the workflow shift here is I think about a few things and you know, I sort of alluded to this at the top of our conversation, we know there is an existing shortage in ESL teachers to meet the demand of the growing population.

So we just have to like hold that. If you are an educator listening to this and you're thinking, well, it just seems like. It's more intense. That is true. There are growing numbers of kids who are not native English speakers. We're seeing more of them in our communities, and the increase of students is not matching the increase in the teachers on the ground.

Great. Mm-hmm. At the same time, there is a shift in how we think about the instructional experience for kids. And so historically those have often been separated by like our ESL classroom. I was a student in one of those classrooms and then like every once in a while I integrate for like art or. PE or whatever, that doesn't build access to grade level content in a meaningful way.

And it doesn't actually accelerate the language skills 'cause we stay in our zone of comfort. And part of language development is really about creating vulnerability and discomfort. And so at the same time, we are having kids spend the majority of their day in general education classrooms where the ESL teacher is operating as a support specialist.

The way that we think about this work and how I think about it as this founder and CEO of medley is two things. I want student autonomy. I want students to be directing their learning and accessing supports when they need this. I wanted this as a special education teacher. I want this as someone who cares deeply about.

ML instruction Instruc. And so what we have the opportunity to do is not just put the onus on the differentiation and the scaffolding of a text on a single teacher to know the needs of three different languages across five different levels in a classroom, and then to provide the research aligned scaffolds to each of those languages.

What we instead can do. It's allow a student to name when they need support and to have those supports ready for them in real time. And so the way I think about this is it's really about the strategic use of home language as an instructional asset, so not just as like a crutch in a way of mitigating the opportunity to learn English deeply.

It's about text chunking to support comprehension or complex academic text. 

[00:15:10] Ben Kornell: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:11] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: It's about intex definitions in English, so when it's appropriate, it's in the home language too. It's about word level supports and academic vocabulary access. And then in the writing process, it's about sentence starters, sentence frames, word banks to support academic language production and to allow our students to write more.

And the research on that is that improves comprehension of grade level content. It increases academic language output speaking and writing. It supports long-term English language development when you have it with really high quality instructional materials, but that a student at any moment can take the text the teacher is giving them and create those scaffolds for themself in real time.

And that's what we do at Medley. I can press a button and those supports are there for me. I can amplify a text to layer on top of what I'm already looking at. 

[00:15:59] Ben Kornell: Is there a connection into the assessment? So like based on how a student's doing, I can ratchet it up or ratchet it down. 

[00:16:08] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Totally. So the beauty of.

ML instruction. One of the few things that we have in our national K to 12 system is our kids are tested every year and so is often referred to as access exams. So we have data on how every student is doing, and now the beauty of this system is that that data has been those levels that kids turn out.

At the end of that assessment, it's been researched what scaffolds you need at that particular level for appropriate language production and development. And so we are able to align those scaffolds to that level. And as that kid's level changes, the scaffolds start to change. And at the same time, teachers know kids best.

And so on the backend, you know, two things can be true. I can be a multilingual learner. And a kid with a disability, and so my teacher can add on additional supports if they think I need it. Great. Maybe I've, I'm phasing out of needing audio translation, but maybe my teacher thinks I need that because they know me better.

Great. Then add that in. But that there is a well oiled body of research that tells us this is what you need here and that. 

[00:17:15] Ben Kornell: So what you're saying is basically the teacher lift, you're taking a lot off of their plate in terms of what they need to do from an instructional expertise standpoint, but they need to know their learner and understand basically where their learner is at in the journey so that they can, you know, meet the needs at the time.

[00:17:36] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: And I think what it it is doing and the conversations we're having with educators on the ground is it's actually helping them make sense of this data for once and all right? Like they've been getting their access scores, they know this kid's a level two or a level four, but no one's been helping them, or few people have been helping them, or they've been getting less help than they need around identifying the appropriate instructional strategies.

To help that kid. And so now we've helped minimize some of that burden. And what's really the part that really means the most to me in many ways is has allowed a young person to take control of their learning and turn on those scaffolds when they need it, and to like be able to really move the button on their own computer to say, I need writing support right now.

I'm leaning in instead of raising a hand and waiting for someone to come get them. 

[00:18:26] Ben Kornell: So many of these supports for English language learners are actually great supports for all learners. How do you think about your purpose, which is. Started with multilingual learners. Is there a general ed application here?

And you know, just from a teacher standpoint, they're juggling multiple reading levels, languages, content standards all at once. And they're experiencing all the bottlenecks you mentioned around language learning. They're experiencing in many other domains too. And there's the kind of, I really love this phrase, the research to reality gap.

So how are you thinking about medley and your growth? Is it, you know, laser focused on language learners, or are you horizontally expanding? 

[00:19:13] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: It's a great question. Two things and yes, and I am laser focused on multilingual learners right now. I think the EdTech space and the marketplace in general has really looked past us and not focused the development of great tools for us and our kids.

And so I really wanna hold true to that. And at the same time, language is the medium of learning, and I have a. Core belief that we don't truly have an achievement gap. We have an access gap, and that the goal here is to be able to create access points for every kid. As a special education teacher, I've spent my career in this space.

I see the parallels between what we're doing at Medley to support multilingual learners and what we can. Do to support young folks with disabilities. And the same is true for broader MTSS structures, like how we can think about tier two and tier three supports. I suspect we'll get there, but I wanna really honor the community that we're with right now.

I wanna really stick with the. Multilingual learner and ESL directors who have like come on this bus with us to be pioneers and in the space as we launched and continue to build for them. And then who knows where we are in a year? Listen, Ben, you're asking the question that everyone asks us every time we come forward.

Mm-hmm. And we're holding tight to make this product great for Ls and not just trying to move to grab a bigger piece of the puzzle. And we know that like it is inevitable, we will start to build in that direction, but we wanna do it with the same intentionality we did and the RD that we did to get this one right.

[00:20:52] Ben Kornell: I think it's a challenge every startup founder is wrestling with right now, which is that AI inevitably is a horizontal technology where if you find your like wedge and it's like working here, once you've built all of the layering on top of curriculum, once you've built all your instructional tools and moves, it really the incremental effort.

Add additional ones for learning differences or for, you know, grade level achievement gaps. You know, that mountain has just gotten chopped down to be being something that's profound. And at the same time, in a business model standpoint, K 12 is classically hard to come in with a generalist value prop.

And you can go after the ELL groups because there's funding for it. There's. Stakeholders and like you said, we're experiencing this huge gap where the demand and the supply of great teachers, there's just a huge mismatch. Yeah. So it makes a lot of sense. And like what you're grappling with I find is actually something every founder is grappling with right now.

[00:21:57] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: I appreciate it. And here's the other thing too that really matters to me deeply is like the conversations I get to have with the educators who we get to connect with and you know, I lead our sales structure, right? So those conversations. They are so genuine around a real appreciation for our focus on ELs.

You know, there's a lot of other stuff that's come in with like a general view of like, we support all kids and we do it for everyone. And I think because we have shown up. Our advisory board is some of the founders of wida, like we've shown up really deep in this space. I think there is a real trust that has developed, and I'm an educator before.

I'm a tech guy, and so like I wanna hold that trust. Really? 

[00:22:43] Ben Kornell: Yeah. 

[00:22:43] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Carefully. And I don't wanna accelerate into another part of the venture. Without really taking care of these relationships because they mean a lot to me. Those are the educators who changed my life. And so I feel just like a great value that I get to spend this time with them, learn with them, build for them and with them.

But I think you're right. It is the beauty of AI right now. We, we get to think big and grow differently and founders and CEOs like me have the tools to do that in a very different way now. 

[00:23:13] Ben Kornell: Hmm. Alright. Before we go to bigger picture, future oriented stuff, let's talk about implementation. Yeah. So much of what you're doing here, you're talking about age old pedagogical challenges with now new solutions unlocked because of your product and 'cause of technology, but we continue to find that good implementation is hard to come by.

What are your approaches to make sure that things are implemented well? How do you think about professional development and kind of informing generalist teachers about the practices and the pedagogical moves that you're making? How do you do that in a way that gets the buy-in and actually gets this to be implemented really well with ELLs?

[00:23:58] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: I appreciate that question. It implementation's the part I feel like we rarely talk about in med tech, and it is the success of any of our solutions, but more importantly, like the only way we're gonna generate real impact on the ground. So the way that we think about this really clearly right now is we want a district champion and we want a school-based champion.

And we have said no to partners who aren't able to deliver there. And part of that is for a few reasons. I think it's gonna be better for kids and for educators if we're able to have that connection from the buyer to the school. And I do think that there is. Because I understand the constructs of school.

I think that that champion, typically the ESL director or the ML director, they hold an opportunity to lead professional development for their team. And so there is a train the trainers that can kind of naturally happen through us for the general education population. That's the first thing. So that's a really important, there's players that we have to have at implementation to make this really grounded a reality.

I think the second thing is, it is about, in our early professional development, really modeling the use cases. The beauty of Medley is, you know, our principle is that it should work anywhere. Uh, ESL student is or an ML is, right? So anywhere that they are in a browser. That's their Google doc that's looking at the New York Times, that's their LMS and whatever curriculum the district bought.

And getting people to see that level of independence for their LS is a clear part of the training that we do and we work with our champions in realizing. And then the beauty of where we are now is we can differentiate based on a district's needs. So some districts have that infrastructure, they have set professional development time, and we can plug into that ecosystem.

Some don't. And because we're pretty frictionless in many ways, like we can set up a webinar that like allows teachers to choose their own adventure and watch it. Real, you know, at the time that's right for them. I think our success will be knowing that each school and each different district operates in a really different way.

We can't be a one size fits all. We don't have a universal strategy around ML supports and the infrastructure inside of districts around it. And so we want to bring in partners who are willing to be flexible there and. Who champion the pedagogical strategy on the ground. It's not a compliance exercise for us.

We're different than some of the other ESL solutions, right? Like this is actually a pedagogical approach that requires someone on the ground to help hold and then make sure is being reinforced with with kids each day. 

[00:26:36] Ben Kornell: Well, of course, this is why so many people. Get into the space in the first place is because they are passionate about the instructional quality and not really aiming to do a compliance related role.

And yet here we've. Whether it's special education or English language learning, we've created such a robust compliance infrastructure. Okay, so zooming out. 

[00:26:59] Alex Sarlin: Yeah. 

[00:27:00] Ben Kornell: We've had deep experience in Boston and New York and really seeing school systems attempt reforms and succeed or fail various different initiatives.

As you're looking forward, what's giving you the most optimism that our school systems can. Reinvent themselves to meet the needs of learners. And what's giving you the most concern? 

[00:27:24] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Oh my gosh. This is its own podcast episode and you're tapping in all my parts. Like teacher, we didn't talk about this, but I was on the school board in Boston.

Like just like all of the stuff, you know, all the different roles I've played. I think about this deeply. Okay, but let's start with the exciting parts. I think I really believe this. I'm not just saying that as like the ed tech guy, you know, I think right now. AI if fused well, has the possibility of turning research aligned, classroom safe strategies that save time for educators into real practice, and that will shift.

So much of the other stuff and things that we are managing. We talked about relationships. I think relationships will change schools. Human first, human centered relationships will change student outcomes, and I think we have the capacity to build solutions that really anchor relationships at the core and get kids reconnected to school like we know what's happening, chronic absenteeism or lower test scores.

Our young people are less engaged with school in the way that we need them to than ever before. And so like. I think there's an opportunity here to bridge that If we're building solutions that center people as the actual problem solver and then just operate in support of that core function of education, that gets me really excited.

I also, there's two other things on a policy level that get me excited outside of EdTech. I think we are having really honest and sober conversations around literacy and the literacy strategies in a way that we haven't seen since the nineties in this country. Real talk since like Bush one. And so I think there is something really encouraging around all of us norming around those realities.

And I also think, not to bring this back to politics, but I also think it is the first time where it's not a single party owning the education conversation. The outcomes in some of our southern states are incredibly encouraging and there's great things happening in our northern states as well. But I think it's like this really interesting moment where like, this is not a.

Single, uh, political party's domain anymore. There is a lot to learn on all sides of the aisle and in a very polarized moment, what can we do with that? Like all hands, all energy, all hearts and heads on achievement? That to me is encouraging and I need some of that in this moment. Real talk. And then I think the thing that worries me the most and maybe worries you.

Is a lot of AI slop. It is like not AI for good. It is the process of releveling text and really lowering rigor as a way of creating, and I'm using quotes here for folks listening, like access points for kids. That makes me really nervous. The schools and school districts and school boards and superintendents, they're spending a lot of money on buying.

Research backed instructional materials, and I get really nervous about AI coming in and transforming the research backed pedagogical tools and creating that sort of slop around it. So not layering on top as a way of creating access points around the research back curriculum. Instead making it its own without any checks and balances.

I think it'll drive deeper inequities in the system. And so like I want everyone's antennas up thinking about that deeply and carefully, particularly as they create AI policies. And then I'll end here. The last thing that I am always concerned about is as districts are moving towards AI policies, that we are creating policies.

In certain communities that are much more focused, almost like from a broken window standpoint on plagiarism and cheating versus knowledge building and rigor and access and opportunities, and. And so I caution in those moments of policy development, where is our real focus here? Like accelerating outcomes, deepening knowledge, pushing rigor, or just the fear that kids will cheat and, and I think there's some guardrails on both sides that we need to be really intentional about creating.

[00:31:52] Ben Kornell: Yeah, well I, for one, am really excited about the future where it's knowledge building. And I think, you know, our listeners are too. So if they want to find out more about Medley Learning, what's the best way for them to find out more? 

[00:32:04] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: So you can go to www.medleylearning.com. 

[00:32:08] Ben Kornell: There you go. 

[00:32:09] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: And on there, tons of information about our research, a demo of how the product is used and where it lives as a browser extension.

And yeah. And we're excited to meet you and talk. So come on over. 

[00:32:21] Ben Kornell: Well, thanks so much, Brandon Cardet-Hernandez, founder and CEO of Medley Learning. Thanks so much for joining. EdTech Insiders. 

[00:32:28] Brandon Cardet-Hernandez: Thank you, Ben. 

[00:32:29] Alex Sarlin: Thanks for listening to this episode of EdTech Insiders. If you like the podcast, remember to rate it and share it with others in the EdTech community.

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