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Edtech Insiders
Edtech Insiders
Coding in the Age of AI: How imagi Is Rethinking Computer Science Education with Dora Palfi
Dora Palfi is the Co-founder and CEO of imagi, an edtech company reimagining computer science education through creative coding and AI. A Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, Dora has a background in neuroscience, human-computer interaction, and technology, and is a passionate advocate for equitable access to future-ready skills.
Special note: Free access to the Lovable × imagi collaboration has been extended through March 31, giving educators and students more time to explore professional AI tools in real classroom settings.
💡 5 Things You’ll Learn in This Episode
- Why creative coding can unlock computer science for students who don’t see themselves as “technical”
- How imagi partners with cutting-edge AI tools like Lovable to bring real-world tech into classrooms
- What “vibe coding” teaches students about AI literacy, prompting, and debugging
- How AI enables truly cross-curricular learning across subjects like history, art, and storytelling
- Why constraints, scaffolding, and design thinking are essential for meaningful AI-powered learning
✨ Episode Highlights
[00:02:40] Dora Palfi on how education and coding changed her life—and inspired imagi
[00:07:13] Why imagi partners with professional AI tools instead of building replicas
[00:10:55] Making AI classroom-ready: compliance, safety, and curriculum design
[00:19:05] “Constraints breed creativity”: reframing coding as a creative act
[00:21:03] Real classroom examples—from Harry Potter sorting hats to interactive art projects
[00:27:40] Vibe coding, entrepreneurship, and preparing students for an AI-native future
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[00:00:00] Dora Palfi: I think there's this misconception, which I definitely had. I remember in college I was really interested in taking some design courses, but I always thought, okay, I'm not like creative or artistic. And it wasn't until I still ended up doing human computer interaction for my master and then I got into some UX design that I remember learning this idea that like actually constraints breed creativity. And I think that's so true. It's usually very paralyzing if you don't have any rules. But the more sort of like rules and constraints you have, that's actually like where you can get really creative. And so yeah, I just think this is some misconception. And so that's where like, yes, coding has rules to it, but those are just the constraints in which you work.
But actually you can get really creative. With the ways you apply it.
[00:00:47] Alex Sarlin: Welcome to EdTech Insiders, the top podcast covering the education technology industry from funding rounds to impact to AI developments across early childhood K 12 higher ed and work. You'll find it all here at EdTech Insiders. Remember to subscribe to the pod. Check out our newsletter and also our event calendar.
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For our interview on EdTech Insiders. Today we are speaking with Dora Palfi. She's the co-founder and CEO. Of Imagi, an EdTech company focused on computer science education with a real AI bent. She holds a degree in neuroscience and a minor in computer science from NYU Abu Dhabi and studied human computer interaction at KTH Royal Institute of Technology.
Dora has worked at Morgan Stanley and Cisco. She's been recognized on the Forbes 30 under 30. She's a lead 2030 winner and a Cartier Women's Initiative Fellow, and she also serves on Innovate Schools advisory boards. And Scouts for Andreessen Horowitz. Quite a resume. Amazing. Dora Palfi. Welcome to EdTech Insiders.
[00:02:10] Dora Palfi: Thank you so much for having me. Yes. You read it all out. I was like curious to hear what's gonna be in it.
[00:02:17] Alex Sarlin: Yeah, no, a lot of recognition, a lot of prizes. You've worked at some really amazing places. So some of that background is not education or technology. You've worked in banking, you've worked in technology at Cisco.
Tell us a little bit about how you got into this world of computer science education and what you sort of have been realizing about coding in the age of AI that led to the forming of Imagi?
[00:02:40] Dora Palfi: Yeah. Great questions. Well, technically, so at Morgan s Stanley, I was on the technology team, so I wasn't really in banking, but I think that's also a bit to the point that when I worked at Morgan Stanley in tech, Morgan Stanley was one of the spaces where they recognized that the future is technology.
So like. Actually they invested a lot in recruiting young talent into their technology teams and nurturing that talent. And that kind of like recognition is a big part of my story here. So I just had, well, initially I studied neuroscience and I got into coding and computer science first. Just as a means to be able to do scientific research.
During my freshman summer, I worked in, actually, I was doing more like quantum mechanics research, and then I had to, I think I remember on my first day, like my supervisor, I was like, do you know how to do basic coding and data analysis and used a terminal? You know? And I was like, I have no idea. And so I started learning that summer, and then when I went back for sophomore year, I was determined that I should take.
Introduction to computer science because I just felt like that's the future and no matter what I'm gonna be doing, that's going to be useful. And it's kind of ridiculous. Thinking back that I actually had to put up a fight with the dean of the sciences program who was so much against me taking computer science.
He thought it was completely useless. And of course this has changed a lot since then. And at some point I was kind of just like joking, but you know, like if I decide that PhD or science or research is not for me, it would be useful that I know how to code. And that's sort of what happened. I was just like, you know what?
Actually I don't love doing research. And funnily enough, the reason why I always thought I would do a PhD and become a professor was because I loved teaching. And so since I was a teenager, I used to do tutoring. A lot in math and sciences, but also languages. And I used to like also work as sort of like a coach for kids.
So like on the sports side, I also loved teaching and luckily I had a professor mentor who was like, Dora, it's not like liking how to teach and wanting to be a professor is not a good enough reason to know, do your PhD and spend the rest of your life in a lab. That was a great point. And also sort of the caveat to it is that I do come from a family of educators.
My mom's a teacher, my aunt and grandma have. Both being teachers and and principals. So like I had that sort of around me. And then sort of the final note, I think on my passion for education is really just seeing how education has such a huge opportunity in improving people's lives and really changing like course correcting and also just like changing trajectory of people's lives.
So I was born and raised in Hungary. And I only started learning English in high school. I did have this ambition of going abroad, but if it wasn't for this amazing scholarship that I got to study at NYU, both in New York and Abu Dhabi, like I would've probably gotten on a very different trajectory. And so sort of that passion for education and then the understanding that tech is really the future.
What really sparked the motivation and idea for Imagine and wanting to create a tool that would make. Tech and computer science education accessible and fun and engaging for everyone regardless of their background. Because I think everyone says that education is an equalizer, but actually I believe that if the modern tools and the new knowledge is only reaching certain group of kids and people, that it's actually more of a divider than an equalizer.
And so that's why I was so passionate about having something at. A true scale and reaching all types of students with tech and computer science, and now AI education.
[00:06:05] Alex Sarlin: Yeah, I think the ed tech field is so lucky to have innovators like you who come from technology fields who come with this really interesting background.
You have neuroscience, all this amazing thinking, and then because education changed your life, because you have education in your family, they dedicate some of that incredible talent and thoughtfulness and resourcefulness to EdTech and especially to equity based EdTech, getting the best tools in the hands of as many students as possible.
It's a really cool story to hear and. One of the things that's incredibly intriguing about what you're doing with AGI right now is that you are building computer science for this AI age, and you're doing it in conjunction with actual really cutting edge AI tools. You're not building your own curriculum by itself.
You're not sort of building a middle layer. You're actually. Allowing really cutting edge AI tools. In this case specifically lovable, really, really leading global coding tool. You're working directly with them to bring their tool into the classroom and then give all the wraparound services to make it work in an educational context.
That is very intriguing. Can you tell us about what that looks like and how you created that model?
[00:07:13] Dora Palfi: Yeah, so this is all very new. And I think being aware, like I said, technology education is so important 'cause tech is the future. And then of course when you're in this industry, you see how that future is changing.
Because three years ago when we started Imagine Education, so as a product for schools, like computer science was sort of it. And then now it's more about AI and understanding that AI can write code. So. We still think and believe that kids need to understand the fundamentals because at the end of the day, you want to have agency, you want to understand how things work.
Like that's what we do in education. But on top of that, we wanna prepare young people, the next generation for the future. And so we have to keep up with the changes in the industry. And so yeah, essentially like. Really the thesis is that the industry is just changing so incredibly quickly. And so instead of us trying to create mediocre or you know, worse replica of AI tools specifically for education, why don't we work to bring some of the leading AI tools to education?
And I guess like the two things that we at. Have developed our expertise in that works really well. Here is one, safety and compliance and data protection and everything you need to ensure that young people will be able to use these tools successfully without risks or at least mitigating risks as much as possible.
And there having that trusted brand, developing those relationships, both like human to human, but also just like having that infrastructure, having. Signed those legal agreements, you know, like having these things in place. And then the other part of it is the actual learning, which is more the fun part.
You know, there's like the, the boring but necessary, right? Extremely important safety piece. And then there is the learning piece where we have developed expertise in sort of creating, engaging, fun, and I'd say most importantly, non intimidating learning experiences, both for the educators and the students.
And so creating that. So content and curriculum around it that ensures that it's not just about learning a tool, but more about learning everything around it. So for example, we recently launched this partnership. It's lovable. And so we have built a vibe coding course around it, essentially. But of course that's not just about vibe coding, but it's about AI literacy on a broader level.
And we've done sort of standards alignment with that and really thinking about it. Yeah, like a deeper educational level and not just. A quick onboarding to a tool.
[00:09:44] Alex Sarlin: Yeah, I mean that model, that type of partnership you're naming where you can take a really cutting edge, really impactful professional tool, like a lovable, and then work to, as you said, privacy.
Compliance standards, alignment, making it educationally viable by creating a surrounding curriculum, surrounding modules, making it actually work in the context of a school. That type of partnership feels incredibly exciting to me because as you say, I agree with your thesis that the field, especially this AI field, is moving so quickly.
That doing, as you mentioned, sort of a replica, creating your own system can get you only so far, but it can't keep up with the systems that are changing all the time in this very competitive landscape between all of these different coding tools. So I think that's a really powerful model. I'd love to hear you talk about how that partnership came about and for others who might be listening who are also in the ed tech field, how you conceived of that idea of taking sort of a professional tool as.
One of the core learning environments, but then creating all the necessary ecosystem functions to be able to actually use it in a school environment. It's incredibly interesting.
[00:10:55] Dora Palfi: Yeah, so I think at the end of the day, I'd say like most tech companies, right, like want young people to use their products because of brand exposure and becoming the leading tool and having that brand isn't a big part comes by working and making it accessible for young people.
That's what Google has in Microsoft and, and Apple and you know, having your brand in front of young people. And so I think that's a natural motivation. And then also. At least like, yeah, most founders out there want to ensure that the next generation will be equipped and will use their tools. But on the other hand, the pieces that we discussed around compliance and safety and then the education part.
Can be a bit like prohibitive. Yeah. And making it somewhat impossible. And so I think for us, first we were just exploring some smaller collaboration, lovable, like, oh, let's do an event where young people can use it. And then I'd say, really, uh, it came about around the hour of AI initiative that really sparked the idea.
Actually, why don't we make it accessible? And for that we needed a more sort of like scalable solution, right? So kind of fixing this compliance issue in a way where a teacher in their own classroom can implement it and we don't have to be there to run events. So to say, and then we were lucky to also have support from OpenAI and we at Imagine have one of our angel investors, Laura Ano, she's the head of startups in EMEA at OpenAI, so she's one of our angel investors.
And it was sort of just like through conversations that this idea all just came together to be able to make it also like freely accessible for the hour of AI because OpenAI provided that financial support to cover the credits.
[00:12:40] Alex Sarlin: A hundred percent. I mean, we talk about EdTech being really a village. It's like an ecosystem.
And hearing you talk about the combination of open AI of the Hour, AI initiative of Lovable, which is a cutting edge AI tool, and then of what you're doing with the Magi to actually work within a school system. This is exactly the type of. Partnership that I think makes EdTech so exciting and makes it so rich and makes it so impactful when you can sort of have the pieces coming together.
And we've talked a lot on this show about how it sometimes feels like there's a competition between the embedded tech players like the Googles and open ais and startups because Google and Open AI have products that go directly to schools opening. I just launched chat PT for teachers just a few weeks ago.
But I think the type of model that you're outlining right there is a much more. Realistic actually way to look at the EdTech ecosystem. How can people play together, sort of play to their strengths and put together the pieces to make an outstanding learning experience for students?
[00:13:38] Dora Palfi: Yes. So I agree with you, and I think obviously like a lot of the foundation layer companies have their own education initiatives, but then that's where for us, partnering with application layer companies makes sense.
And I'd say the alignment is still there with the incentives for, let's say, like open AI or some of the other foundation layer companies, because at the end of the day, we're still using their technology as well, right? So, you know, it doesn't have to be a competition or maybe competition, something that's still beneficial for all.
[00:14:06] Alex Sarlin: A hundred percent. And how are you thinking about the sort of teacher training or professional development, or how are you getting the educators in the classroom on board with this particular cutting edge version of, of AI and coding? I know that hour of AI is designed to be very accessible for educators.
I'm curious how you're thinking about it broadly when it comes toad's work.
[00:14:27] Dora Palfi: Yeah, so I think R of AI is exactly about that. Like we're close to the holidays. Maybe you can spare one class period and try something new with your students. And so that prompts us providers to design an activity that's. So simple that you can get to like tangible results in like 20 minutes.
And so you can really get that positive reinforcement cycle. And then hopefully teachers will see the engagement and excitement from students that want to continue. And I think that's exactly the principle that we need to follow for all our materials and our resources. And that is what we've done from the beginning.
So with our original product, which is like a third through eighth grade creative computer science solution, and then. Now we provide the by coding course, which goes all the way up to 12th grade for us. It's always been about, I mentioned earlier, like also making non intimidating for teachers, right?
Because that's also one of the biggest challenges that there's not a lot of computer science teachers or tech teachers. And I think, of course there's a distinction. I think that fundamentally we'll need educators who are. Teaching or at least facilitating some kind of computer science AI fundamentals course.
And so we provide the materials for that. And that's where like PD is also incredibly important. And we at imagi have had the great opportunity to, for example, partner with various states like we've been part of Indiana c. PD Week or, or in Texas, we've also done like a state level summer PD where our PD is not about learn how to use, I imagine, but it's also actually giving the foundational skillset around computational thinking and literacy around these topics.
And so that's a very good opportunity for us to build, of course, our credibility, but also give more exposure to our tools. I'd say like 99% of the cases, if an educator joins a PD afterwards, they're like, wow, this is an amazing tool. I also want to use this, which is a win-win for everyone. But I think the other piece of it, and that's where I think like Gen AI tools are so exciting, is that educators and the system always complains that we don't have.
Time to introduce new things, and that's where anything project based and all our content be that our computer science or more the AI focused content has been always project based. And then we rely on this principle of the four Ps. That's also the basis of scratch. So it's projects, peers, passion and play.
And so what it means is that you can create both personally meaningful projects, but you can also create. Projects that link to a certain subject area. And we recently launched our cross-curricular lesson plan bundle. And so that's also, I think the future of it, especially with gen ai, because you know, you're essentially just like building some kind of product with five coding, that's probably a website, but you could use other type of generative AI to make presentation, make music, make a voice or podcast.
But at the end of the day, the content of it can be just relevant to your subject area. And so we have. Our computer science curriculum has, I don't know, piece where it's about like coding different countries flags. So obviously you're learning about flags. So it could be about the lunar phases or planets and you know, so you can like integrate across the curriculum.
And that's where I think you can really unlock adoption because you're not asking for an extra time, you're essentially. Making the existing curriculum much more fun and engaging.
[00:17:50] Alex Sarlin: A hundred percent. I think AI is uniquely suited, maybe along with the internet itself, right, but uniquely suited to being a technology that is agnostic of any particular domain.
So you can put it in a. Math, you can put it in English, you can put it in history, you can work. Ai, especially AI plus coding as you're doing can be a hundred percent cross-disciplinary. And as you say, that unlocks a whole lot of time. It unlocks a whole lot of funding because many schools, their funding is dedicated specifically to math and ELA, and if they don't have additional funding for a computer science elective.
If you're doing something that's directly related to the disciplines, it can unlock a lot of different creative ways to fund it. That's exciting vision of pd, and I love the interdisciplinary, you mentioned in the middle of that creative that your core product is creative coding, and I think that's a really interesting angle.
I'd love to dig into that a little bit. Creativity is both when people think about the relationship between creativity and coding in some ways. They go together, right? Coding is creating something new. You have to be imaginative, and in some ways it feels like opposites, right? People think of coding as very rule-based and very different on than art or music.
How do you think about the relationship between creativity and coding, and how do you sort of bake creativity into your product as you're doing coding with ai?
[00:19:05] Dora Palfi: Yeah, that's also interesting 'cause I think there's this misconception, which I definitely had, I remember in college I was really interested in taking some design courses, but I always thought, okay, I'm not like creative or artistic.
And it wasn't until I still ended up doing human computer interaction for my master and then I got into some UX design that I remember learning this idea that like actually constraints breed creativity. Yeah. And I think that's so true. It's usually very paralyzing if you don't have any rules. But the more sort of like rules and constraints you have, that's actually like where you can get really creative.
And so yeah, I just think this is some misconception. And so that's where like, yes, coding has rules to it, but those are just the constraints in which you work. But actually you can get really creative with the ways you apply it. So that's just like a side note. And then I think the other part of it. It's a bit of a branding question too, to be honest.
We like, my personal motivation was also to make sure that our tools are appealing to and liked by students who would typically not think of themselves as very stemy and tacky. Right. And so like the word creativity is also a bit of a branding decision there because. Students who might typically want to engage with arts would suddenly be like, oh, this is creative coding.
I can also do that. So this makes it a bit more accessible that way.
[00:20:25] Alex Sarlin: It may be a little bit of branding, but it also happens to be, I think, really true, especially in this AI age. Right? It's literally with tools like Lovable and, and some of the others out there. You can use coding to create almost anything you can imagine.
And it can be the huge exercise in creativity and ideation, which is I think one of the most exciting things in this moment. So there's something really clever about the branding of creative coding. 'cause it covers both the STEMI kids, as you're saying, and the artsy kids. But when it comes to actual fruition in the classroom, what types of projects do they do?
What does the creativity look like when they're actually making coding with imagi and maybe with lovable.
[00:21:03] Dora Palfi: Yeah, so I think that's also of course why it's creative because ultimately in imagine's computer science program, students create art with codes. Obviously it's creative and we've seen everything from, well, first of all, some individual work where I remember this like gigantic artwork that a student made of like Jacks Perro from Pirates of Caribbean, and you know, that's like kinda like her personal passion project.
Group projects and, and you know, here it's like not just for girls because, you know, we've seen like basketball players and football jerseys and all sorts of, you know, fun projects being created. And then also, like the ones I mentioned, like cross-curricular and for example, one example that came from, from a student was, so we had this eight by matrix and we have like a physical kinda extension of it into the world.
The I imagine charm, that was our original product. Someone came up with turning it into a dice, and then someone have created like the, the Harry Potter sorting hat. So it would use sort of like the random functionality in Python. It would show you like a hat and then it would randomly show one of the houses, you know, that you belong to.
So, you know, you can do a lot of like storytelling and, and so I think the kind of storytelling piece is. Really connects all of these like creative pieces and both our imagine like coding and then also the generative AI piece. And so one educator, I had the opportunity to observe her use lovable just last week in Tennessee and, and that was her whole take.
So essentially, you know. She was explaining to me at the end of the day, like teaching is, is storytelling. And so she made some really cool projects with with lovable. One was around the history of this painting. Actually. She had two projects with paintings and one was about the Mona Lisa when it was taken over to New York to be on display and sort of like all the safety and the security around it.
So this is actually like a history lesson, but she sort of wide coded it and pulled in a lot of standards from both history and then computer science and sort of like created this like. Interactive coded page for her students to learn about it. So there's like two layers to it. One is that you as the educator take the time to build something interactive, but then the next level of learning is that.
You instruct your students to like, you know, find a painting that you care about and then create an interactive website that tells the story. And then at that point they will have to do all the research, have to learn the history, amazing. And also, you know, actually gain these technical skills of, of building.
So it's really, really easy to. I shouldn't say easy because you know, I understand that it can still be like a lot and overwhelming when you do it for the first time, but it's a very exciting opportunity to just make learning more engaging.
[00:23:39] Alex Sarlin: When I hear examples like the ones you're giving this painting example or the Harry Potter sorting hat, or you know, the idea of just being able to Jack Sparrow.
Right. I mean, one thing that really strikes me as so exciting about this moment in computer science generally, but especially with AI coding, it really. Turns things around in terms of what is motivating students to try this type of tool, right? I mean, historically it was the first thing you'd build in a coding class was a tic-tac-toe game or a, you know, hello World app.
[00:24:07] Dora Palfi: Now I feel called out because we saw a tic TikTok toe game white coded as an example. But yeah.
[00:24:13] Alex Sarlin: That's fine. It's fine to show it as an example, but it's so amazing that the students can be like, you know what? I'm gonna do a sorting hat first because I love Harry Potter. You know what? I'm gonna do art with Jack Sparrow.
Like there's something very different about an experience of learning a new skill if you can immediately inject your interest into it. And I'm curious what that looks like on the ground in the classroom. I think we've talked to a few different people over the years. They're doing computer science education and they universally say.
We're at this crazy interesting moment where you don't have to build from the ground up quite the same way. You can sort of immediately inject things you care about into your projects. And I'm hearing you say that as a core principle of what you're doing with Imagi.
[00:24:53] Dora Palfi: Yeah, I think that's definitely true.
I guess there is one caveat to it where like in the beginning we were really leaning into this idea of constructivism and constructionism and just like, you know, letting kids explore and build and then learning. Through that, but like a really big criticism of of this approach is that there's no scaffolding and then some might really succeed, but some might really lack that guidance.
And so that's where we were like, actually no, we do have to provide. Pretty detailed content and support for educators. And so the way we try to implement it as that, in each lesson we have multiple projects. And so we kind of like build the first version together. That's, you know, like the example. And in the case of like our coding projects, like, okay, you code something.
And then after that comes to personalization. And in the white coding course, it's sort of like we have an initial prompt. Let's say we're all building like. Some kind of game, and then we do some debugging prompts, and then there is some kind of like personalization step. So I think you still need the scaffolding, but then the further you get, the more personalized it can get.
And I think it's more about like in every lesson there should be some opportunity for personalization. You don't have to wait until you know everything, but like in every little step where it's possible, it should be possible. And I think it's a little bit like the MVP versus. A minimum lovable product.
And you know, that's where the name for lovable comes from. So instead of building minimum viable products, it's minimum lovable products. And I think it's the same thing where like, you don't have to know everything to be able to start, you know, going off on your own, but like, just with a small piece of knowledge, you learned, like let's already create something that's more interesting to you.
And so, yeah, that's what we aim to do, to, to increase the engagement and, and the relevancy.
[00:26:44] Alex Sarlin: A hundred percent. And yes, you're right, pure constructivism, just putting the tool in front of a student, say build whatever you want, is not gonna be nearly as effective. There's lots of research on that, but I think the combination of scaffolding, skill building and then allowing all sorts of early on in the process, personalization where people can start doing things that they, you know, injecting things they really care about.
That's, that's really exciting. So tell us about the future of, of imagi You. This lovable partnership is relatively new. Our of AI has only been. Launching in the last few months. When you look forward to, you know, the next 1, 2, 3 years, what is the plan for helping Im AGI get to more and more students, and especially regarding helping more and more students who wouldn't have seen themselves as potential coders or people who necessarily use AI to build.
How are you planning on expanding and changing more minds, getting people more into the fold of the computer science world using all the things you've been doing with Imagi?
[00:27:40] Dora Palfi: Yeah, so I think there is like a couple parts is obviously like we discussed, the industry is changing so quickly. So for us it's also exploring what additional like tools and skill sets and and application areas there are that potentially we could build into our platform so that we provide a larger array of opportunities for creating and then also working really hard to make that.
Barrier to entry, extremely low. And I think, you know, to your previous point it said like high ceiling, but very low floor. So kind of like getting started is very easy, but then creating a lot of opportunity to expand. I mean, I think also within that, something that's just like very exciting and like trend and opportunities, right?
Like we've been talking about sort of like personalized learning for a really long time. But personalized learning historically meant. Kinda like doing things that are standardized because then you know that there's a correct answer or not correct answer, and then you can maybe give progressively harder or easier tasks for students.
But I think we're at a point where, well, there's two things. One is I heard this awesome keynote speech when I, I was myself also speak at one young world, and Natalie from, from Siemens, so she's like the legacy of the Siemens family. She said this one thing which really stuck with me that. You know, historically our education is so focused on standardized, like standardized steps.
Everything's standardized. But actually what AI is really good at is everything that's standardized, right? So like we need to shift our education and our skillset to things that are not standardized. And so that's why I think like we now actually start having the tools to create like true personalized learning and not this sort of like constrained and standardized personalized learning that we had before.
And then in terms of like scale, obviously I, I mean, I just really believe in partnerships to drive more of that reach, both with our tools that we can work with, and then also sort of like opportunities to, to reach at a larger scale. We are very present in the US market right now, but we also see opportunities outside, especially through some of our relationships at like government level and, and really, you know, now.
It is sort of a race. I think in a lot of like governments and countries, it's like constantly on the agenda, what are we doing about ai? And so we are just excited to be part of that solution that like here, this kinda is a one stop shop solution to all sorts of AI learning and skill development for your.
For the next generation.
[00:30:10] Alex Sarlin: If I can inject my 2 cents here, the two areas that I am really excited about seeing somebody do that type of partnership that you're doing with Lovable one is with the music generation apps like suno. These apps blow my mind and I'm just. Amazed that more young people aren't using that.
I think they are beginning to, but they do things with music I've just never seen done before. You can turn your own lyrics, turn anything into music, any style, any combination of style. I would love to see somebody maybe imagine using that kind of partnership. And the other is, of course. Video creation, the runways, or Google Vos or OpenAI SOS of the world.
You know, we've just, in this totally new world of film creation, I've said on the podcast like a hundred times. I think the next, you know, Steven Spielberg will be like a 14-year-old from Baltimore because you can come up with the movies purely from your imagination. But there aren't very many, as you say, like systems that are doing what you're doing with lovable, doing the compliance, doing the safety, doing the educational experiences, doing the professional development, all of the incredibly necessary steps to actually get something like a suno or a runway to work in a school context.
[00:31:18] Dora Palfi: Definitely Suno has been on my radar for, uh, maybe an ex partnership. So for if someone from Suno is listening.
[00:31:25] Alex Sarlin: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that is such an incredible opportunity for schooling and for a platform like that. It's a, it's a perfect opportunity. It's so exciting what you're doing. And, you know, I wanna ask one more just question about what this looks like on the ground, because you, you mentioned you're in.
US classrooms, you're expanding in different ways. You're going towards more personalization. You're doing all sorts of interesting things with open with our of ai, and using that activity to open doors. When you go into a classroom that's using imagi even outside of the hour of ai, I'm curious what you feel like it's doing to change the minds of young people who, you know, maybe know AI as an answer machine.
Right. They know that CHATT will give them answers. They know coding as something that's out there somewhere that people use. Create computer code that makes the internet run or makes apps. But like they just don't feel like it's part of their identity and don't feel like it's part of their capabilities.
How do you feel like imagi is starting to get people to open up their eyes to these incredible skill sets and really start to embrace them and, and see themselves in that?
[00:32:27] Dora Palfi: Yeah, so again, like you said it this. Still very new. And actually our vibe coding course officially launches like early next year. So we've kind of launched the hour of AI component of it.
But there's a couple things in it that that touches on. I think what you mentioned that, for example, our vibe coding course, like it starts with like introduction to vibe coding and you know, like prompting and debugging skills and, and sort of, these are obviously like some of the most important skills for the future.
But then we also spoke about this a little bit before where I feel like. The better tools we have, the higher expectation we can have of our students. And so, you know, like of course there's the, the old school analogy of like calculators in math. So you know, if we want young kids to learn fundamentals of math and then they can use calculators to supercharge their work.
And then I think there is sort of like a necessary like pedagogical approach to. Maybe not giving infinite amount of credits, you know, but you actually, like, you should be able to do this in like five prompts. You know, just like, because you have to learn how to do that well, and maybe, you know, you need to invest upfront that.
Five minutes to write a really good prompt as opposed to just like trying. Yeah. And I think to this, there is of course pedagogical reasons, but we even have like an environmental impact of AI units in our right coding course. Nice. Because you know, like maybe instead of mindlessly running ai, it actually is very.
Environmentally beneficial to burn a bit more calories in your brain than burning tons of forests. So, you know, there is like very different ways of approaching this and also making it pedagogically solid. And then I think another piece that really links to vibe coding is entrepreneurship, which I think is, is probably one of like the.
Skills that are emerging or just like, like, if I can call it skills, but you know, essentially what does it mean to, to learn about entrepreneurship is that you're a problem solver, you're a self starter. And so for example, one use case, I've been speaking just yesterday with some people from Hawaii Department of Education and they have this statewide sort of design thinking initiative and that's where they.
Use this, uh, new lovable emoji sort of platform solution. And so I think, yeah, like the design thinking piece is really big, and that's also part of our upcoming curriculum because at the end of the day, that's, yeah, I, I do believe one of the like, important skills emerging and so. Yeah, no, I went a bit on a tangent, but you know, there is ways to implement it, especially like the black coding piece across the curriculum.
But then also, of course, we are like leaning into the standards around like AI and computer science as well. And then of course there is, you know, about K 12, it takes a bit of time for new standards to emerge. But for example, the new computer science, computer Science Teacher Association standards are coming out.
In the summer 2026. And of course they have a lot more ai. I, I've been lucky, you know, to be closely involved with the community and also be part of like the, the team, like, so reviewing the new standards. So of course also being aware of like what's coming and sort of preparing for that. But I think, you know, it's a, it's a fun place to be where you are at this like.
Tension of like an extremely fast changing industry and like a slower moving education ecosystem. You have to make sure to bring those new things in a way that. Fits to the expectations of the kind of slower moving ecosystem,
[00:35:57] Alex Sarlin: that type of partnership, the type of work you're doing with imagi of helping the most cutting edge, interesting AI frame tools, even those in computer science.
Be usable in a educational context and doing all of the translation and the localization and sort of making sense of it. For a school context. It feels like an incredibly interesting and really powerful paradigm for how education technology may move forward. I hope you're really as excited about, I mean, I know you're as excited about the work as I am, but I think this model is something that we could really use.
I also didn't know that the new computer science standards are coming out next year. That's really interesting. I think that would be, that's interesting for our, our EdTech audience to know as well, especially anybody in that, in that space who maybe is, is following that closely. Those new standards, especially if they incorporate ai, is gonna be a really interesting opportunity for the ed tech world to come back to the education world and say, okay, new standards, new thinking, AI is now baked into what you know, and we can help you get there.
[00:36:54] Dora Palfi: And actually, for example, I've been talking about design thinking, but that's also actually a really big part of it. So yeah.
[00:37:00] Alex Sarlin: The design thinking piece is really interesting. We've heard from a few different people that one of the things that AI is doing to the coding field in general is sort of breaking down barriers between, you know, product managers and engineers and designers and, you know, areas that were once very specialized are starting to blur more because you can sort of fill in the capabilities with AI that you didn't have previously.
So I think the idea of design thinking and creativity inside the coding skillset makes a lot of sense.
[00:37:27] Dora Palfi: Yeah, I agree. Yes. It's both very exciting and I understand like sort of scary, but that's definitely what's happening. And you know, at the end of the day, like building a, and this kind of goes back to like what makes you good at using ai.
I think like paradoxically, it's like. Being an expert in a field, so like a really good coder can use AI really well to code, and a really good designer can use AI really well to design. And so that's why it's going to be like the difficult job of education to kind of like support that productive struggle where you're not just trying to get like.
Okay, output from ai, but how do you actually like master these skills and yeah, that's just like a very exciting challenge.
[00:38:09] Alex Sarlin: It is. I think the idea you mentioned about having a sort of limited number of prompts as a learning tool to sort of make sense, make people pause and take more time to think about what they're trying to create is, is a really interesting, I've never heard anybody say that, and I think that's a really interesting tool in the toolkit of.
Doing that, of making people not just go back and forth with AI a hundred times until it gets good enough, but instead actually having to take the time and use your own brain calories and think through and do some research and make sense of it before you go to ai. That feels like a powerful model.
[00:38:41] Dora Palfi: I was just thinking like the equivalent contest of like when you have to get to a Wikipedia page by the least amount of click through Wikipedia pages anyways, maybe we are gonna have like contests, you know, build something that looks exactly like this with the least amount of prompts.
It would be an exciting talent.
[00:38:56] Alex Sarlin: That's powerful. I, yeah, I mean, there's environmental impact, but I think it also just puts more of the onus of thinking on the learner, right? Even though in the, in the professional world, there'll be lots of back and forth, AI is sort of inherently iterative. I think there's something very intriguing about limiting the number of back and forths as a learning tool gets the wheel spinning.
What a fascinating conversation. So. Dora Palfi is co-founder and CEO of Imagi. It's an EdTech company focused on computer science education. They're launching a Vibe coding course in collaboration with lovable and with hour of AI in the new year. Incredibly exciting work that you're doing. I do hope you do a music class next.
That's just my personal bugaboo, but that would be so fun. Thank you so much for being here with us on Edtech Insiders.
[00:39:38] Dora Palfi: Thank you.
[00:39:40] Alex Sarlin: Thanks for listening to this episode of EdTech Insiders. If you like the podcast, remember to rate it and share it with others in the EdTech community. For those who want even more, EdTech Insider, subscribe to the Free EdTech Insiders Newsletter on substack.
