Edtech Insiders

This Week in Edtech with Ben Kornell, 3/4/22

Season 1 Episode 21

Send us a text

Topics this week include:

  1. The Impact on Education of the War in Ukraine 
  2. Funding Rounds
    1. Disco, Toronto-Based CBC platform, gets $15mm series A from GSV and others
    2. EdTech startup Tutored by Teachers raises over $10m 
    3. Edtech Luca Raises a $3 Million Pre-seed Round and Starts Operations in Mexico
    4. Singapore edtech Genius Group files for $40M US IPO
    5. EdTech startup Vygo raises £1.5m to accelerate global borderless education support
    6. Founders of Zerodha, Cred, others invest $1.7m in edtech platform Kalvi
  3. Google Dedicates $100mm Career Fund toward New Forms of Education and Certification
    1. Google Creates $100 Million Fund for Skills Training Program
    2. Interview with Leila Makarechi - Chief Business Officer @ Merit America, the non-profit that is one of the first recipients of Google's investment
  4. Interview with Guest:
    1. Justin Weinberg - Co-founder & CEO @ Aktiv Learning
      • Aktiv Learning has recently renamed itself (from 101edu), released a new mobile first math curriculum and continues to build world class platforms dedicated to active learning. 

What can Listeners Do:

  1. DONATE TODAY! to  Education Cannot Wait
  2. Hire Upwork developers from Ukraine 
  3. Donate, partner or volunteer to do mock interviews with
Alexander Sarlin:

Welcome to Ed Tech insiders. In this podcast, we talk to educators and educational technology investors, thought leaders, founders and operators about the most interesting and exciting trends in the field. I'm your host, Alex Sarlin, an educational technology veteran with over a decade of work at leading edtech companies.

Justin Weinberg:

Hi, everyone, this is Ben Cornell and Alex Sarlin. With this week in edtech, is the week of March 4, and the world is turned upside down with everything going on in Ukraine, the Russian invasion. And so we're doing a special episode today where instead of our normal run through all the headlines, we're really going to try to break it down from an ed tech perspective, how to think about what's going on in Ukraine implications today and tomorrow. We also have some great guests and outs will tell you a little bit about what's going on in edtech. Insiders, Alex? Yes. So

Alexander Sarlin:

today we're going to talk to Justin Weinberg and Leila mocker. He from Merritt America and active learning. We're doing really interesting work. But we are going to focus on Ukraine today, I did want to make just one more announcement, which is that part of the tech insiders is also teaching and giving back to the community. I am teaching an ed tech bootcamp and ed tech product management Bootcamp on the CO lead platform throughout April. And we will put a link to that in the show notes. And in the post for this week. If you or anyone you know, is doing a tech as a product manager or wants to break into it. We'd love to see you there. With that, let's get started. So Ben, let's talk about Ukraine. Crazy times.

Justin Weinberg:

Yeah. So I think we were thinking about the headlines. And we're like, okay, is, is what's going on in the Ukraine one headline, or is it actually several different stories? And so we want to talk a little bit about the micro and then zoom out to the macro and on the micro. What does this mean for the Ukraine? Second, what does this mean for Russia? And then also, what does this mean for the tech and Ed Tech Community writ large. And what we'd love to do also is invite the discussion on our LinkedIn posts, and in some of the messaging, because of course, we're responding dynamically to what's going on. And we're leading with a view of inquiry and insight, rather than being the experts. So starting on the Ukrainian side, seven and a half million children and youth are having their education disrupted. And every time we see a disaster, human or natural made this disruption is incredibly catalytic or negatively impactful on the lives of kids. And so it's always important to start there. Meanwhile, we're seeing incredible push and rally from students in the US, along with other social organizations rallying to support Ukraine. So it's one of those moments where the impact on the ground is pretty profound. As you think about the Ukrainian perspective, Alex, how are you looking at it and breaking it down? Yeah,

Alexander Sarlin:

I mean, we've been so used to pandemic related disruption over the last couple of years. But the type of disruption that is happening in schools in the Ukraine right now is on a whole different level. I mean, this is trauma, this is war, it's going to affect this entire generation of students feeling like their neighboring country has invaded them, with no real discernible reason that their parents can explain. And not only is there going to be learning loss, of course, and deaths among the youth in Ukraine, which is truly tragic, but you're also going to have students who may need a lot of social emotional support for many years to be able to get back to a place where they truly believe in their regular education. It's really, I mean, this has been true in war throughout history, or always, not almost always disrupts education in major ways. But we just haven't gotten to see this close up for generations. And I'm hoping that the international community sort of rallies as they have already around the children and youth of the UK in the same way. They're rallying around the adults. And

Justin Weinberg:

we'll cover this at the end, but education cannot. wait.org is an organization that supports young people who are refugees of crises. And there are solutions out there that are designed to support kids going through this crisis and going through learning loss and also having an escape through learning. One thing that is important from an ed tech insiders angle is that the Ukrainian is actually a hotbed of outsource developers for many ad tech companies in the US and abroad. And they have their own ad tech startup community. We'll put some links in the feed. What I'm hearing from the field is Is that many folks are losing contact with their developers. Obviously, it's been a traumatic time. And some of the bigger companies have actually shut down access to their Ukrainian development partners, for fear that the laptops or data or whatever it could be seized or stolen. So really challenging time for the Ukrainian startup ecosystem. But especially those dealing with Ed Tech. On the Russian front, we're seeing similar themes of impact, broadly around isolation and putting in sanctions and so on outlets. How are you seeing that playing out in education and tech?

Alexander Sarlin:

Yeah, I mean, we're at the very beginning stages of this. But I think what's already become clear is that as the international community purposefully sort of pushes Russia into a pariah state and tries to turn them into a sort of isolated rogue state until this violence is over institutions of every kind are withdrawing from Russia, you've seen that from investment, you've seen that from airlines and all sorts of places, and that does not exclude education. So we had a headline this week about MIT ending a program in Russia, I am sure that Russian exchange students are not going to be coming anytime soon, a lot of university collaborations or various programs that may have been cross, you know, international borders are going to be closed down. And I think Russia, just as a viable partner, in almost any way is really going to be off the table for quite a while, you know, companies like Yandex, which is the Google of Russia do a lot of educational programs around the world to train people in computer science and some of the similar programs to what Google does here. And I just think that it's going to be not really viable for people to do business with Russia for a while, it's really a terrible shame. What do you think, Ben? Yeah,

Justin Weinberg:

I mean, I go back to some of my experiences with Russian tech ecosystem, and it was already pretty challenging. One, you know, in edtech, we're often dealing with student data. And the idea that student data could go beyond borders is already a focal point for regulation. And GDPR, in Europe specifically prohibits student education data from going outside of the GDPR zone. So when we I don't know, it was like two or three years ago, we acquired a Norwegian company that had operations in the US, we acquired the US subsidiary, and they had Russian developers who had been working on the product. And one of the implications for us buying the company was that we actually had to pay for the Russian developers to get like an Airbnb in Finland, in order to keep developing the product. And over time, it ended up becoming clear that we had to transition from that set of developers, you know, my heart goes out to the people of Russia, who are suffering for the like actions of the government. And in particular, in that tech sector. There's a number of great developers and developer shops that are going to have to figure out how to survive either serving solely a Russian attack economy, which will tank alongside the rest of the economy likely? Or do they need to find an exit option, which ultimately means that this migration crisis that we're seeing out of Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a refugee crisis from Russia, of folks who are no longer able to make ends meet and pursue their professional objectives. And we need to understand how are we going to be responsive for that? So we dove in on the Ukrainian side and the Russian side? I think this is a setback moment for all of us, like as a society. How did this happen? What does this mean, as you step back, and especially take the big picture for tech and Ed Tech? What are some of your insights, Alex, and kind of questions you're wrestling with?

Alexander Sarlin:

Yeah. So I mean, just before we leave the refugee crisis behind, I wanted to just add one additional hope, maybe silver lining hope, which is that of the 600,000 plus people who have already fled the Ukraine, I would hope that some of those who do work in development or education or who need to maintain their jobs could do so more easily than they had in the past. I know it's a it's a tough thing to say about refugees who might not even have a stable home. But I think, you know, in this moment of remote work globally, I would hope I truly hope that there is some movement to basically establish places where Ukrainian workers can work from other countries within Europe and continue to have their livelihoods so just wanted to say that but one of the things that struck me is it very interesting this week is how a lot of the big tech company These have been pulled into this crisis in a variety of different ways that you may have seen the headline that Russia declared Netflix to be basically a media outlet. And as a media outlet, it had to be controlled. And they basically demanded that Netflix, put 10 state run propaganda channels onto Netflix so that people could watch them within Russia. It may be goes without saying that Netflix refused outright to do anything like that. But it is almost feels like generations, different centuries, almost smashing together the idea of a Russian leader trying to force state propaganda onto Netflix, it almost sort of makes your head spin. We also saw Microsoft jump into combat Russian cyber attacks, we've seen Facebook and Twitter have to adapt their policies to combat disinformation. And I think we're in such an interconnected tech world right now. And these companies have so much power over the cultural landscape, it's just been really interesting to see all these moments where they have to make moral decisions in the face of war. Yeah,

Justin Weinberg:

it's putting a really clear spotlight, that there are diplomatic moves for nation states. But our big tech companies have become global political players as well, right? And if we want to lean into dystopian future narratives, because this certainly has, like, an Orwellian feel to this moment, how do Microsoft, Netflix, Facebook and Twitter come up with their public policy towards different governments. And in a clear case, like Russia, we can see them acting quickly and decisively. But in the less clear states or in the run up to what Vladimir Putin has been doing? What role did those companies states, these big tech states play in enabling or accelerating some of the things that are happening? So our kind of takeaway is like, education related to those big tech platforms, education is a tool that is often used by governments to prop up the state or to disrupt or dismantle the state. And now as a tech organizers, insiders and company leaders, we have to make a choice in lots of different contexts. And I will say things like book burning and critical race theory being regulated in schools and affecting edtech content providers seems to be connected or related to some of the things that we're seeing over there. So if we're not willing to look in the mirror, then what is the point of reflecting and I think this is a, like a morale call to action are a moral moment.

Alexander Sarlin:

Yeah, I think, you know, both big tech and education are these very powerful tools that can either be used to promulgate state philosophies, or to disrupt and dismantle them, they can be used to maintain the status quo or to change it. And now education and technology can do it. And now edtech, being as big a market as it actually is starting to become asked to do some of the same things, which is, I think, new for the space. And we haven't seen, you know, I haven't seen any headlines quite yet about things like can Google Classroom still work in Russia? Or if it can't, at all, but I think those are right around the corner. And I'm sure that many different edtech companies are going to have to start thinking about what it means when countries are at war. I mean, nobody has tried to put education technology into North Korea. But Russia? Yes, they absolutely have. There are many, many Russian Moog learners, for example. And you know, one of the things that we saw back in 2014, and Coursera, was certain countries were considered off limits to serve from basically from the Department of State within the US. So students in Cuba students in Iran, students in Sudan, which was at war at the time, we're not allowed to access Coursera, which went directly against Corsairs core values and mission to provide access to everybody. And I think you're gonna see a tech companies have to face that choice in a few different ways now, which is sad, surely, especially because as you said, then both Ukrainian and Russian people really don't want this war. This is not a this is not a supported war from either population. So actually

Justin Weinberg:

navigated a situation where a buyer from China was interested in doing m&a with us. I can't go into all the details. But basically, it got next because of the State Department. And this idea of even if the student data state in the US the fact that like a Chinese owned business, could have access was a non starter. So as much as like I think our Ad Tech Insider constituents are probably focused on and rightly so. The humanitarian and political consequences of what's going on in Ukraine in Russia. I think what we're hoping with this segment is just to shine a light on On the ways in which there are professional implications for edtech, and ultimately for kids. So I guess the question everyone's asking themselves is, so what, what do we do now? What action do we take? And Alex, I'd love to hear your thoughts. For me, I've been seeing all the lists of organizations that you can donate to. I like the idea of donating to education cannot wait.org in that they support refugees. And this is not just about the Ukrainian refugee crisis. This is really refugees in all situations. And with remote learning and mobile availability, there's actually a lot of ways in which kids can have continuity in their educational journey. What I also was surprised by is on the education cannot wait website, they were talking about these events, not as acute disruptions for a short period of time, but actually four or 567 years of being in transitional mode, where learners need that support. And the last thing that I thought was really insightful there is it's not enough to provide direct education, but also to support reintegration into schools in their new country, or whatever their permanent situation is helping them bridge that transition. And then from a leadership standpoint, how do we examine our own neutral versus active stance in edtech? When we honor what communities want for themselves, I think we often do great things in education. But there is a line where, who's calling the shots and what the community is asking for might conflict with the core values of the company, or what we believe around what's good for learners and what's good for our society and community. And I just think this is a moment where a position of neutrality can't stand. And not just with Russia and Ukraine, but literally every decision around curriculum content and attack. So I just encourage people to open that dialogue with their staff. I think some of that door has already opened with everything that's gone on the last few years. And it's just a good time to connect those dots and come back. What about you, Alex? What's your kind of do now.

Alexander Sarlin:

So my do knows would be to consider the fact that a democratic nation is now being torn apart by its neighbor and 600 plus 1000 people and probably more coming up become refugees. And I think what edtech companies can do is one hire Ukrainian developers, reach out to them reach out to their sites, reach out to them on Upwork, or however you can, and make sure that they can continue to get work, given their situation, don't be afraid of working with them, make sure they can work because they will need the work. And the other thing is to give an olive branch, you know, give the same way that during the Syrian war, Syrian refugees were spread all over the world, and especially throughout Europe, and were displaced but still needed education. Every edtech company could be offering their products to Ukrainian refugees and schools and children during this time to try to do our best to keep the educational disruption to a minimum, there's obviously going to be issues with whether they can access it or not. But instead of assuming the worst, make the gesture, put it out there and see what happens. I know that during the Syrian war, many Syrian refugees were college students, who were then sent out of the country and needed to continue studies and all sorts of different things. And ad tech companies did a really nice job of being able to offer them resources. And we should do the same here.

Justin Weinberg:

Well, we'd like to hear from you, our listeners, what are you doing? How are you making meaning of this. And as I said in the intro, Alex and I are not experts on Ukrainian or Russian at tech ecosystem. But we know that the implications here not only affect the citizens of those countries, but really are rippling out to affect our world. And so we're excited to hear what your thoughts are, and excited to keep this conversation going.

Alexander Sarlin:

So this has been a sobering talk about the world at war. But we do want to report on some really interesting things that have been happening around the world in edtech. This week, as well. So let's start with some funding rounds. This week, disco, which is a cohort based course platform out of Toronto got a$15 million series A from GSB and other investors. Disco has been in a similar space and a little bit on the heels of Maven as a leading CBC provider. They've also leaned in by having some courses from well known people like Margaret Atwood, or design thinking leader Roger Martin, but all live classes classes that actually give you access to these teachers. So really interesting model and tech startup tutored by teachers raised over $10 million, also led by GSB this week to entered by teachers offers small group virtual instruction from qualified and certified teachers trying to match up teachers and underserved students really interesting. At Tech, Luca got a$3 million precede round in Mexico. That's a startup that allows students to take lessons and received support from tutors in a single app. They're going to expand their content library and expand to more Spanish speaking countries. Singapore and tech company genius group filed for a $40 million US IPO this week. That's a global education company based in Singapore with 2 million students that is all about entrepreneur education for learners of all ages. At tech startup vago, which is out of Australia raised one and a half million pounds to accelerate global borderless education support. Specifically, it's around creating social support for higher education, which is a really hot space. We don't want to be isolated as college learners. And then Calvi and ed tech platform out of India got a round of investment this week, about 1.7 million US dollars. They're hoping to bridge the undergraduate GAP program gap by giving students cognitive skills so that when they finish, especially engineering programs, they actually can get jobs. So it's offering what they call a liberal engineering program to help people think about big picture thinking. So they can join the modern world with a full suite of tools. Again, it's been a very intense week with what is going on in the Ukraine. But we also have two terrific guests today in ed tech founder and a chief business officer of a really terrific nonprofit. So enjoy these short interviews.

Justin Weinberg:

We're excited to transition to our interviews. And first up we have Justin Weinberg, who is the CEO of active learning, formerly 101. Edu. We're excited to talk to Justin today a little bit about his founder journey, the state of higher ed and higher ed content, mobile development. And what's next for innovation in higher ed. Welcome, Justin. Thanks a lot for having me. It's great to be here. Great. So a lot of our audience, our founders themselves, or even at Tech, curious, as we call it, they're thinking about a new venture getting started, why don't you start us off with a little bit of your journey to get active learning off the ground? Yeah, absolutely. So throughout my career, I've been a scientist, I've been an educator. And I've always just really been involved with how technology can really make a difference in people's lives. So what I want you to do, for me are an active learning. It's really the intersection of all those things, things for me in edtech really got started back in 2010, when I was in college, doing tutoring pretty regularly. And I ended up teaming up with my current co founder to create this hobby app for delivering chemistry video lessons on our smartphone to students. And you have to remember, this is 2010. And video lessons in education at that time were barely a thing. But our theory was that smartphones were exploding, and were clearly the future of way things were going for many industries. But we thought, hey, wouldn't it be cool and effective if we could use an app as a delivery mechanism for students to get and watch these videos right on their phone. And we turned out to be right, we put this app out and all of a sudden, we got over 500,000 downloads on it and a couple of years. And we didn't promote it or market it or anything, students just really loved it. And at the end of the day, this Yeah, this this really told us two big things. One, just the order of magnitude of the number of students that were struggling in STEM who needed help. And the second thing was that they were really looking at their phone as a way to learn. And that got me really obsessed with thinking about how I could take what we built to the next level. And I knew as an educator and someone who had been in front of a lot of students, that next level had to be around active learning. Because when you're talking about STEM disciplines, whether you're talking about chemistry, or physics or math or engineering, it's really about students sitting down and solving problems and struggling iterating. Through that process. Video Lessons are definitely nice, they definitely have a place but ultimately, it's passive. You know, you're watching someone show you how to do something. So fast forward a few years, I decided to pursue my PhD in Chemical Engineering at Carnegie Mellon. So I'm doing that. And I'm still thinking about this active learning problem and this edtech problem and how we can solve it. And being around academia even more, I started to realize that a lot of the problems that existed were not just students on their own kind of struggling but it was really about what was occurring in the classroom. Because unfortunately, even today, we still have many college classrooms that are essentially students coming into a lecture hall and sitting or listening for 60 to 90 minutes straight. So we started to think about this active learning problem not only as a way to help students when they're struggling, but really sort of transform the college learning experience. And one day I had this idea for how we could tackle the problem with the part of chemistry that deals with drawing and visualizing molecular structures. So I got really excited, I ended up calling up, Igor is my current co founder. And I said, you know, hey, I have this awesome idea, we have to go build it. And that's essentially how we got started with active. Many more to say after that, but hopefully it gives everyone a sense. Well, super interesting that you're a PhD candidate. And, you know, kind of hits on a theme Carnegie Mellon as a hotbed of ad tech innovation. And I love both that you're leaning forward on mobile, but also on this concept of active learning. When I first heard about one on one edu, it immediately clicked that our one on one courses, there's a way in which we could disaggregate the learning, such that real time active learning versus lecture or learning could essentially not only provide a lift for the students, but also for the faculty and educators themselves. It sounds like you kind of got your roots in a b2c channel. But when did you flip over to the selling the schools? Or is that how your model works, you sell to schools. Yeah, so what we do is we partner with the professor or the instructor who teaches the course, and we become part of their syllabus. So we become one of the required course materials. And a lot of times that is in replacement of Publisher options and publisher technology that they're currently using. So we come in to give a more affordable, but also more engaging and more active experience for the students. So it's sort of like B to B to C, if you're gonna use those acronyms,

Alexander Sarlin:

fascinate, just listening to your origin story of how you came up with the idea of for one on one and now active, it reminds me of it's sort of a really common in a good way at Tech origin story, which is that somebody put something out in the world. And they're just shocked at how many people need and want. And that was Khan's story. That was the story behind all the MOOC platforms and and a lot of people I wanted to ask about, you know, the fact that you are a chemical engineering PhD, your head of content is also a PhD in chemical engineering. And I think one thing I'm curious about is how you translate. You're very sophisticated academics in that space. But you're teaching introductory level, how do you think about making sure that your students can understand that, you know, getting over that expert blind spot and teaching at the level that they are at, especially because they're often in high school?

Justin Weinberg:

Well, a lot of times it's really thinking about and remembering what it was to be like a student and be learning something for the first time, like I was mentioning a little bit before, you know, a lot of times we are coming in to replace some sort of Publisher technology that's attached to a textbook. And these sorts of technologies have come into play over the years as a result of PhDs and subject matter experts putting that together. But when you look at the experience that they create, for example, like having students draw a molecular structure online, or enter a specific answer, or come up with a chemical equation, that is talked about math concepts as well, but the interface that students are sort of presented with actually does more to hinder their learning process than it does to actually aid them. So we really think about technology as a way to lower the barrier, not increase it. So of course, don't just have meetings talking about concepts in chemistry, it's really about how do you effectively use design and combined with pedagogy to really make something intuitive to a student. So the technology is getting out of their way. And it's helping them learn it's adding to the experience, rather than getting them distracted. So, you know, I think that's a big part of what we do as well.

Alexander Sarlin:

I think it's terrific. Just a quick, quick follow up there because I love how you're thinking about it. When I look at what active is doing. There are a few things in there that feel super, super modern. The focus on student affordability, the mobile first approach, I wanted to ask about your rebranding, you recently changed the name of the company from what led you to active learning and change the chem 101 product to active chemistry. Tell us a little bit about that change and what you're hoping to achieve with it.

Justin Weinberg:

Yeah, so a great question. When we started the company and founded it as one on one edu. The term one to one wasn't actually a reference to the like, intro, one on one courses, but it was actually a reference to how we as a society use the term one to one as a way to make something more accessible to students. And that's how we really thought about what we were doing, how we were taking these arcane, mostly difficult types of subject matter and bringing it down to where the students are. So that was the emphasis around the original name. Over time, we did find out that people were confusing that with the call which course code and we had intentions of going beyond the first few level. For example, last year, we expanded our platform into organic chemistry, which is the second year level of chemistry. And certainly, as we discussed, the whole company is centered around a deep philosophy of active learning. So we really wanted to bring that into our name. And we decided to coincide that with our expansion from chemistry, into math, which is our new product and our new discipline. So we decided to kind of do it all at once. So the company is now active learning, we renamed Chem 101, to active chemistry, and just launched a new product called active mathematics. Well, I have a lot of empathy. I've rebranded four different times in my career. And it's like, it's a pain point, not just technically to get all the branding, right, but also to get all your customers and get the team and everyone just to reassociate. With that new name. I also feel like this is another part of why we had the on to justice just, there's elements of your founder journey that just so resonate with what we hear from people outside, going from a chemistry vertical to then being multidisciplinary, it's a common challenge people are trying to tackle, how has that been going? What have been the biggest challenges? And where are you seeing synergy and opportunity? And where are you hitting roadblocks, absolutely great topic, something that we've thought about as our strategy since the beginning. And certainly over the past couple years or so as we laid the plans for going into math. As I think about this, and especially what when we started the company, one thing that we were really insistent on not doing was taking the traditional approach to learning platforms in our industry. And oftentimes that sort of taking a generic learning platform, and then loading content onto it that ranges from the humanities to the STEM disciplines. And what we found time and time again, is that it doesn't create good user experiences for learners. I was kind of getting a couple examples of that minutes ago. And it also doesn't really allow for any innovation that happened within discipline, because there ends up being no focus. So when we started, you know, we were very committed. And we said, we are going to build and grow the best learning platform for chemistry. And that's all that we're going to do. And what that allowed us to do is really invest and create some awesome technology from the ground up that solves some of those major teaching and learning challenges that come up in chemistry. And we're talking about things like helping students draw Lewis structures and practice nomenclature and write out and build chemical formulas and reactions with equations. Dimensional Analysis is another big one equilibrium calculations. But while we were doing this, we also learned how to build a learning platform with an instructor dashboard, and integrate that into the institution's LMS. Like Canvas or Blackboard, we learned how to sell and market a platform like this to instructors. And we also learned a lot about how to support those adoptions and what the best practices were. And the great thing about all those things I just mentioned is that they carry over directly when you go to another discipline. So when it was time to do math, we already had a lot of the pieces in play. So we could just focus on the new discipline itself. So for math, specifically, we really wanted to invest in some new technologies that were again going to solve the teaching and learning challenges of that discipline. So with active mathematics, which we just announced a few weeks ago, two of the major things we wanted to solve were students foundational math skills as they go through college courses, we talked to a ton of faculty teaching ranges of courses from developmental math and college algebra and precalculus. And they told us time and time again, that it's not really the problems with what I'm trying to teach them right now. It's that I'm teaching them something and they don't know how to do an arithmetic problem, or they don't know how to solve a simple linear equation, which are foundational building blocks to the higher order concepts. So that was something we wanted to focus on. But also, the ability to capture students work as they solve problems in our platform. Instead of just creating another platform where students get a problem when they put their answer into a box, we really wanted to create some new problem formats and interfaces, where students could actually put in their steps and get feedback along the way. And all of that has resulted in some new tactile ways for students to play and explore and manipulate these concepts. And in a way where you can capture student work and get feedback. So that's a little bit about how we've approached our journey from one discipline to another. It's really benefited us to have that focus in the beginning. And really go deep into the learning challenges and stem which instructors at the end of the day really, really appreciate when we talk to them.

Alexander Sarlin:

It's really interesting to hear you discuss that tension that is in some ad tech products, and I think it's exactly dead on I really resonates with my experience and I think many experiences of edtech users and creators where you can either do something that you know, technically would work for any subject and upload content into a sort of blank canvas and LMS but it doesn't do any subject particularly well, because it's not designed to think about the problems and issues and affordances of that subject. So that idea of going deep in chemistry, then using the pieces of the puzzle that can transfer up to other subjects, like the administrator dashboards, or the question types are the infrastructure. Super, super interesting description. I think that'd be very educational fodder for other ed tech founders.

Justin Weinberg:

Yeah, I would also just say, Ed Tech funders often push you to have a bigger total addressable market, which would then like steer founders towards the generic, universal, ubiquitous, when actually some of the highest value companies of today started with a really narrow vertical. I mean, Newsela is a unicorn, and it was doing like middle school social studies. And I think there's just something to be said, for like getting your problem solution, really write in something specific, and then build from that core. Yeah, I think we've got a wrap today, Justin, it's so great to have you on. And it's just been really exciting to watch the journey. And now that you're active learning, excited to see where you take things. Thank you so much for having me, Ben and Alex. It's great to be here.

Alexander Sarlin:

Terrific. Another big headline in edtech this week was that Google announced $100 million investment in education and specifically career education and career certification. This is a big scale project that's going to spend years in multiple organizations. But one of the organizations receiving the first set of funding is merit America and we are so lucky to have Leila MacRitchie, the Chief Business Officer of merit America with us today, Leila, welcome to the podcast.

Justin Weinberg:

Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Alexander Sarlin:

So Leila, tell us about what Barrett America is. And what is the relationship with Google? How has it developed in the past?

Leila Makarechi:

Sure. So married America envisions a world in which anyone can advance their life based on merit, not money. So basically, we provide pathways from low wage work to skilled careers by preparing talented adults. without college degrees for in demand roles. We offer really fast and flexible programs that are designed for people who work so they can keep their day jobs while they're learning. So today, we know in the US that most family sustaining roles require a four year college degree. But the fact is that between one and 10, low income students will earn a degree by age 25. And there are over 50 million people stuck in low wage jobs, the vast majority of them who grew up in poverty themselves. So these are workers that have talent, they have valuable experience, but they don't have the time or the money to go back to school and enroll in a boot camp. Essentially, they don't have viable options to access the middle class. Merit, America creates a pathway to living wage jobs for people without four year degrees. We provide a combination of online learning and professional coaching. To prepare our learners for entry level work in fields like at Java development and data analytics. We are laser focused on wage gains and not vanity metrics, like the number of people we train. And actually recently, our wage in data was externally validated by the University of Virginia and results from a survey we did on our first 1000 graduates showed that on average graduates had a wage change from $24,000 annually when they came to mirror to $50,000. So essentially, they're more than doubling their salary as a result of our training. Now, when it comes to Google, we're really proud that google.org has been a consistent funder of our work, which has enabled us to reach more learners and offer low cost high value solutions. And then, of course, the Google career certifications have become an industry wide signal that employers recognize as an indicator of important skills. And that's why we're using certifications like the Google IT support certificate in our training tracks.

Alexander Sarlin:

So Leyla a lot of people talk about the holy grail of a partnership with Google one, like how do you architect that partnership? And two, how does that really accelerate what you're doing? And for others who are thinking about trying to hit it big with a Google or big tech partnership? What's the advice or lessons learned?

Leila Makarechi:

Yeah, definitely. So it was a partnership a long time in the making of it took several months and actually a result of our longtime relationship with Google over the last couple of years to come to fruition, but there's so much alignment between what the Google career certificates are trying to do of what Merritt does day by day training incredible, talented people across the country. And what our third partner social finance is really great at providing the mechanism for a fun like this to come to fruition. So with this 100 million dollar fund merits actually going to be able to partner with social finance so that we can expand access to education and career opportunities. And specifically, what it was gonna look like is more than 20,000, folks from underserved communities across the country will get access to training to get into higher paying higher growth jobs, all with the end goal together driving a billion dollars of wage gains. And I think one of the really important factors that helped us design this fun together and be one of the inaugural recipients is having really clear solid outcomes data and a very clear pathway to that$1 billion mark, this font is going to provide learners with the financial support upfront to get their training. And it's ultimately going to lead people into entry level work where employers are struggling to fill the roles that the need. For us, it's honestly a really important validation of our approach and our results. And having a model that works has been no small feat to set up over the last few years. And there is not four years old. But we're just so excited that the results our teams have brought to bear can now be scaled up across the country, and have really, really grateful for the opportunity to work with Google and social finance and others to make this big pipe dream a reality.

Alexander Sarlin:

So Leila, your use of the metric of wage gains, just really catches my ear. And it's such an exciting way to look at the effectiveness of programs like what merit America does. It makes me wonder why other higher education systems don't think about wage gains as a core metric. And one thing we've talked about on the podcast is how in recent years, tech companies like Google and others have begun to offer education options directly learners outside of traditional universities and degrees, but for a while they were offering them in partnership with universities. And now in some ways they're offering them directly the learners. Google has even announced that it will consider the google it cert and some of their other certificates as substitutes for four year degrees from universities. And you mentioned explicitly, this is for students who don't have degrees. So I'd love to hear from your vantage point. What are the pros and cons of a future in which this continues to expand and students make might bypass college and instead go directly to companies and institutions like merit America to get their first jobs or to events?

Leila Makarechi:

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think it's not so much pros and cons. But we need both and right, so we have married, we think college is an important option. Absolutely. But it can't, it shouldn't be the only option. Right? So a college degrees shouldn't be the gating factor when it comes to employment that provides a family sustaining wage. There was a recent opportunity at work report that talks about how employers are spending billions and billions of dollars on talent management systems, and just really outdated data had principles and requiring college degrees for roles that don't really need them. And that by doing that, you're essentially immediately screening out about 70% of all black adults 25 years or older, who have been in that workforce and don't have a degree, and about 80% of Latin X people in the same demographic, and over 70% of all rural Americans in that same group. So it's not that college is not a good option, it's just that it can't be the only option to access a role that you can provide for your family with. And the folks that Merritt works with our learners, unfortunately, have largely been failed by higher education. 80% of our learners have started some form of a degree, whether it's an associate's or a BA, but have not been able to complete it. And unfortunately, they have debt from their time in higher ed. And we often hear from them that they couldn't go back to college, even if they wanted to give them the time and the money that it requires. And that even if they have the time, even the money right now, it's not the path they're searching for because of the length of time the unclear payoff from going through. So what we're hearing from our learners is they want shorter and more accelerated opportunities to be able to provide for their families. And once they act serves a role at which they can provide for their families, then higher education could actually become a really great option for further advancement. So what we've been doing at Mara, America is partnering with employers, really big companies like JP Morgan, Chase, Infosys and Accenture. And also really incredible fast growing startups like molecular who have shifted these qualifications for entry level positions to remove ba requirements. We're also working really closely with 110, which is a coalition of employers committed to hiring a million black adults in the next 10 years, to really partner with employers in removing this gating factor, and allowing folks to who have the skills who are trained, how valuable experience be able to access these great roles. That being said, we do also support our learners who want a person and associates or bachelor's degree, the credentials that they earn, like the Google career certs, they are recognized for credit by over 100 different community colleges and universities across the country. And we do sign articulation agreements with higher education providers so that learners are investing in their long term education and advancement. And many of our employer partners like Infosys and Amazon, they also are supporting their entry level employees in continuing education and training,

Alexander Sarlin:

Leila, it's so fascinating to hear you talk about this. And what I love is that you're approaching equity from a number of angles. And for many equity signifies how do we make the existing system more accessible to more people? And what you're talking about is, how do we actually change the system to be more effective for more people. And I really love that shift. And it also is clear that it's not just about the Learner Education paradigm, but also the learner employer paradigm. And so thinking about how in concert, those pieces shift is really important to figuring out equitable pathways. One relatedly, though, I think, concern is rising in the education space around the responsibility of education and learning, shifting from government run agencies, nonprofits, etc, to being driven largely by in the private sector. And we see that in K 12, where Google today is actually the largest edtech company in the world with Google Classroom, Chromebooks, etc. And it's really a rounding error on their like income statement. So how do you think about the ways in which corporate engagement in the space, whether it's from Google or anyone can be most effective? And where is the line where we actually need our institutions to be stepping in more forcefully?

Leila Makarechi:

Yeah, that's a great question, Mary. Just to clarify, we're, we're a nonprofit. So we're not a for profit institution, ourselves. It's not a question of who should do it. It's the question of when should we do what I think both are higher ed institutions, and many of them are like that are really incredible examples of work happening, need to evolve and think about equity in their outcomes, and in making sure that the education that they're providing is really equipping generations of folks in our country to access roles where they can provide for their families, there's space for that it's important, I think it's underway. And also, we can't wait for that to come to fruition. In the meantime, because we do have 10s of millions of people who don't have the degree can't get a degree and have families to provide for. And so I think in the meantime, as our higher education system evolves and improves and is more equity driven, there's a really important role to play for players like Google or like Mara, and then not just married, you know, there were just one player and then large ecosystem of nonprofit and for profit providers who are providing shorter term training opportunities. And I think we need to have options available to meet people where they're at. And I think and in nutshell, mean, need higher education to work right and no industrialized economy has ever succeeded long term without a functional higher education system. And that system absolutely needs to become more inclusive and more equity driven. There's really important work being done there. But it's going to take time and there are 10s of millions of people who don't they need to feed their families this week. They need to pay their rent and this month, and can't wait for the years or potentially decades, it might take to make our higher education system equitable and able to provide the results that we need for our economy. And so I think that's the space where providers like merit, and other nonprofits or for profits come in and in providing an opportunity for people to access the training, they need to pick up the skills they need to enter higher paying roles that actually have career mobility built in and a pathway to the middle class.

Alexander Sarlin:

So just one final question, it really is so exciting to hear you talk about sort of changes to the entire employer, educator ecosystem that will benefit people in the short term. One of the interesting aspects about what merit America does is it's pushing on the monopoly on mobility that higher education institutions have had in the US. There are so many outcomes for life and health and economics that come with a bachelor's degree in America right now. And there have got to be other ways to have a happy, healthy, fulfilling life other than going to college. I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about how married America and Google have really worked together to create an alternative path to mobility into the middle class.

Leila Makarechi:

Yeah, I think that's really well put Alex, that's exactly what we're trying to do is create this alternative pathway to the middle class and create it specifically at Marriott. Our mission is really focused on people who are working, there are really great opportunities that some of our partners like personal us, and Europe, and many others in the space provide full time training for folks who are able to whether they're younger, maybe they don't have families to provide for just able to enroll in a full time training program. But an alternative pathway we really thought was missing from the market was what if you are working? What if you do have dependents? What if you do have bills to pay? How do you find the time or the resources to access training, and enter a role that actually has upward mobility, one of our learners actually come to mind as I'm thinking about this. She just reached out last week and wanted to share with us she had just started her new role at Infosys, one of our employer partners. And she said, You know, I've been working my whole life since I was a teenager, I've been working. And the last role I've been in the last few years has been at a gym. It's been a job and grateful to have it, but there's just no space for me to go up. There's no way for me to provide for my family, there's no way I'll ever be able to own a home. And now that I've entered this opportunity, again, more than doubling her income, she was able to save up money for house, she was not worried about paying for rent. And she went on to share all of the great attributes she's experiencing feeling more financially stable, and then what really caught my intention is to share the impact that it's having on her children, seeing her having gone through training like marriage, which is not easy. I'm not sure I could do our training to be on top of working. And just the increase in confidence, and hope and outlook in life is that intergenerational impact is really interesting to think about, as well and the impact it's having on her children who are teenagers themselves and thinking about how they want to pursue their goals and make sure that they can access chaining to get into these pathways that provide a family sustaining wage. And again, I don't want to say there's no room for college. Actually, many of our learners merit is the first educational opportunity they've ever succeeded in completing all the way and it just is a wonderful starting off point to continue to pursue education and many folks do many folks will go back and enroll in Associates Program, or use their new employer program benefits to pursue higher education. I think it's just a question of when we reform what we've got to reform all of it to get a handle on the income inequality, which has been rising astronomically in the United States for the last several decades. And we like you said we're hoping to provide this alternative pathway while our higher education system, which is extremely complex system reforms as well.

Alexander Sarlin:

Absolutely. And you mentioned the doubling of salaries earlier, but one number there that we didn't stick on but I think should stay in everybody's mind is listening to this is that the the average income of people coming into the Merritt America program is$24,000 a year. And that is an amazing number because it just shows exactly what the opportunities are and how limited they are for people who don't have degrees and don't have the type of skills training that they need. So this is incredible. I want to give a pitch to merit America, I suggest to all of our listeners go to merit. america.org is an amazing organization. And they also are always looking for volunteers to support the graduates of the program as they prepare to leave the program and get those jobs at employer partners or companies around the world. And they're always looking for volunteers to do mock interviews, and I've done that myself, and it was an incredibly rewarding experience. So I would love to give them a pitch, Leila. This has been a lovely, lovely, really fascinating interview. And we appreciate you being here on tech insiders.

Leila Makarechi:

Thank you so much, Alex, and thank you for the plug. We're always looking for great volunteers for mock interviews, as well as employers interested in hiring our learners are donors interested in joining a coalition of funders are bringing together so we can access the full potential of this Google funds. So thank you so much for the time really enjoyed being with you here today.

Alexander Sarlin:

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Ed Tech insiders podcast. If you liked the episode, remember to subscribe on Spotify, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're listening on Apple, please leave a rating and review so others can find the podcast. For more ed tech insiders content subscribe to the Ed Tech insiders newsletter at ed tech insiders.substack.com

People on this episode