Katie Kirsch is a designer, engineer, and social entrepreneur. At Stanford, IDEO, and Designer Fund, she has launched several products, programs, and ventures in education. A few favorite projects have included working & living at a K-12 boarding school in India, scaling a menstrual healthcare organization in Uganda, and road-tripping across the US for 14 weeks in an RV to teach leadership workshops for 1200 girls.
Most recently, Katie founded Twenty, a coaching & community platform that empowers young adults to crush their twenties. Katie holds an MBA from Harvard Business School and a BS in Product Design Engineering from Stanford.
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Katie Kirsch is a designer, engineer, and social entrepreneur. At Stanford, IDEO, and Designer Fund, she has launched several products, programs, and ventures in education. A few favorite projects have included working & living at a K-12 boarding school in India, scaling a menstrual healthcare organization in Uganda, and road-tripping across the US for 14 weeks in an RV to teach leadership workshops for 1200 girls.
Most recently, Katie founded Twenty, a coaching & community platform that empowers young adults to crush their twenties. Katie holds an MBA from Harvard Business School and a BS in Product Design Engineering from Stanford.
Recommended Resources:
Welcome to EdTech insiders where we speak with founders operators investors and thought leaders in the education technology industry and report on cutting edge news in this fast evolving field from around the globe. From AI to xr to K 12 to l&d, you'll find everything you need here on edtech insiders. And if you like the podcast, please give us a rating and a review so others can find it more easily. At first is a designer, engineer and social entrepreneur and founder of 20. At Stanford, IDEO and the designer fund, she's launched several products, programs and ventures in education. A few favorite projects have included working and living at a K 12 boarding school in India, scaling a menstrual health care organization in Uganda and road tripping across the US for 14 weeks in an RV to teach leadership workshops for 1200 Girls. Most recently, Katie founded 20, a coaching and community platform that empowers young adults to crush their 20s Katie holds an MBA from Harvard Business School and a BS in product design engineering from Stanford, Katie Kirsch. Welcome to Ed Tech insiders.
Katie Kirsch:Thanks so much for having me.
Alexander Sarlin:So Katie, you have worked in design thinking a lot you've launched and run an education nonprofit, to empower young girls as leaders, you are completing Harvard Business School, right? This I think last week, and you're moving full time into launching 2020 is a really fascinating app. Tell us about your journey in education and edtech. And what you're doing with 20?
Katie Kirsch:Yeah, you know, I've always had a passion for education, like even from a young age, I was that kid that loved school. I also have two younger sisters. And so at home, my mom always encouraged me to set a good example and be a good role model. And, you know, this idea of mentorship at all, it just ended up playing a huge role in my upbringing. In high school, I was mentoring middle schoolers and college I was mentoring high schoolers. I graduated, I came back to teach one of my favorite classes back at Stanford, Steve school. And at the time, I was working full time at IDEO. But I was doing all these things and education on the side, you know, there was an you know that girls leadership and education nonprofit, co founded back in college, there's an independent career coaching practice. And I just thought it was fun, you know, and it felt really natural to find ways to take some of the things that I felt like I was learning in many cases the hard way, and then share those things back with others who are navigating the same decisions or moments or milestones for the first time. And I knew I wanted to create a bigger impact in education, but I didn't really know how. And that's when I started thinking about going to business school. And so two years ago, I came to HBS, with the hopes of getting the same depth in business that I had gotten in design for my time at Stanford, and IDEO, and business school ended up being this amazing launchpad for entrepreneurship. Where in my first year, I participated in a program on campus called Startup bootcamp. And it was through that sprint that I started tinkering with the initial idea that would later evolve into 20, the company that I'm working on now. And so yeah, it's been kind of a tumultuous journey, lots of twists and turns. But I'm super grateful for all of it. And and I'm just really enjoying it. It's honestly, it's been so fun.
Alexander Sarlin:And it seems like there's been a through line throughout about, you know, as you say, mentoring, providing examples, passing knowledge down to people who, you know, may not have access to it in other ways. That's true of the design thinking world. And it's true, exactly of what you're doing it 20. So give us the elevator pitch, what is 20?
Katie Kirsch:Do? Sure. So 20 was initially inspired by this massive gap between college and the real world. You know, we graduate from what society deems the best four years of our lives, and then we enter this dark abyss. And so that's really where 20 comes in. We're building a coaching and community platform that helps young adults navigate their 20s and achieve their potential both in work, and in life. And so on 20 You can book one on one sessions with leaders across industries, you can access our texting based hotline for career and life advice on the fly. We do workshops and events and more. And you know, all of this is really focused on helping 20 Somethings figure out what they want out of their lives and careers, and then how to get it. And that means giving them the building community support system, and blueprint for success that in many cases we lose almost overnight when we graduate from college. And so that's a little bit of Yeah, how 20 is structured today.
Alexander Sarlin:I think it's a very important need. I know what you mean about losing it overnight. You were here, you know, recording this right at graduation season. People are graduating high schools and colleges all over the country right now. And they're stepping out into the world, just as you say, some of them are stepping out having no idea what that means for them, what they're stepping into what they want to do next, and what their young adulthood will look like. I was definitely one of those people, I talk on the podcast a lot about just having no idea where I was going when I stepped out of college, and I would have loved a community and a mentor, like what you're offering 20 Can you tell us a little bit about you mentioned, there's it's work and life, give us a couple of examples of which kind of subjects people would talk about in the context of their work, and which they might ask a mentor about in terms of making life work for them and in their 20s.
Katie Kirsch:Our goal with 20 is really to meet young adults needs on a holistic level. And that means covering both the personal and professional side, which are becoming increasingly integrated. And so on the 20 work side, we covered topics like applying to grad school, breaking into product management, negotiating your salary getting promoted, you know, taking on new challenges at work. And then on the 20 life side, there are more personal growth oriented topics like moving cities, coasts and countries managing your personal finances, overcoming impostor syndrome, finding balance and routine, building confidence in a new place, building community in a new place, you know, and these are the kinds of things that you know, every 20 Something is going to face, you know, this, it's, I can definitely relate to your point on graduating and feeling like, no, overnight, you become an adult, and no one is really preparing you to answer all these questions and make these really big decisions, both in work and in life. And our goal, you know, is to be inspirational, rather than prescriptive. You know, we're not telling people what to do. But we are offering diverse new perspectives, and helping to ask the right questions that guide people to their own source of clarity and conviction around what might be right for them.
Alexander Sarlin:One of the things that is really interesting about this, that moment when people are stepping out into the world, and I think this is as true of Gen Z, people who are graduating as it was for any other generation, some people don't need any help. Some people have known exactly what they wanted to do, since they were you know, nine others are like, Okay, I'm out, and I don't know what I'm doing. And I really need to get some help and others, and maybe even the majority don't even know what they don't know, they don't know, how little they they know about the world or what you know where to find it out. So tell us a little bit about your business model. You know, how do people find 20? And who pays for it? Is it individuals in their 20s? Is it families? Is it universities? Is it workplaces? What does your business model look like?
Katie Kirsch:So you know, the focus on Gen Z is really important for us, because, you know, navigating your 20s has always been tricky, but Gen Z is taking this chapter to a whole new level. You know, they are entrepreneurs at heart, there are many of them are restless, and how they switch jobs, try new things and carve their own unique career paths. And in places like Tiktok substack, you know, eSports and FTS, really feels like the youngest generation can start their careers anywhere and make a living doing anything, which sounds inspiring, but can actually be paralyzing. And so in this new future of work, where Gen Z feels like they're always at a crossroads. We help 20 Somethings find that like purpose, direction and support they need to thrive. And with the focus on Gen Z, you know, to your question, naturally, social media has been a huge driver for 20. So tick tock, Instagram, LinkedIn, we have an email newsletter, we host free online events. So I'd say it's an a mix of ways that this generation is starting to hear about 20. We're still pretty early on. And then business model wise, it's a subscription based membership. And in many cases, that membership has been sponsored by employers, including companies like Uber, Steelcase attentive, and startups are already fully covering the cost of membership, which we already feel like is super accessible for the 20 Somethings individually. And then, you know, the last piece is, we're now launching 24 teams to work more closely with companies on custom coaching and programming. And so overall, it's a really exciting time for us.
Alexander Sarlin:So I can imagine that employers are you know, looking at their Gen Z their new employees coming out of college many cases and saying, Wow, this is a new generation, they have a whole different way of living and we want them to to succeed. We want them to stick around with us or at least be here for you know, a tour of service and do something really, really powerful. Tell us a little bit about the mentality of you mentioned like an Uber, when Uber purchases 20 for its employees for its youngest employees, I imagine. What is it looking to, you know, really besides the you know, being nice and making sure that they are happy? What is it looking to sort of achieve as a as a company,
Katie Kirsch:you know, a big part of it is, is empowering their youngest employees, setting them up for success. says rising leaders within the company. But it's also helping companies listen more closely to Gen Z hires and figuring out how to build the kind of culture and environment that will more effectively engage and then retain these employees in the future. And, you know, from our perspective, it's really within everyone's best interests that we get close this gap between college in the real world and dedicate resources to early 20. Somethings, it's good for parents, universities want this companies want this. It's obviously as for the young adults themselves. And so really everyone wins, if we invest in this, folks who are navigating this defining decade. And so it's kind of like the bigger mission we're fighting for. And we found many companies that align around that mission to I love
Alexander Sarlin:that phrase defining decade, I definitely felt like that personally. And you know, almost everybody I know feels like the 20 is sort of showed them who they were, for better or worse, and give them a lot of experiences and chances to explore. It's really interesting, I want to ask about the other side of the equation, these mentors. 20 is a community people can connect with each other. There's all sorts of ways to learn. It's also a mentorship program, where you meet with people a little further down the line, the new successful people who have you know, been the the exactly the types of people that young people can learn from in terms of work skills and life skills. So how do you source and find these high achieving mentors? Who want to mentor younger people? And how do you set them up for success as mentors,
Katie Kirsch:our mentors are amazing. I'm just inspired daily by the work that they do, and their dedication to sharing the kinds of knowledge and insights they've gained through their 20s. With younger folks. At this point, we have about 100, diverse leaders from across industries. And so product tech startups, VC, finance, consulting, engineering sales. Yeah, and I started with my own personal network, as you know, many founders do. But now, you know, most of our mentors are actually nominated by our community, or they're referred to us. And so we have an online application, we go through an interview process, we have a training course that covers concrete frameworks on mentorship or community standards, and some resources on reducing implicit bias in your calls, just recognizing the same resources that are available to you or that were available to you when you were in your mentee shoes may not be as accessible to the person that you're communicating with. And so, through all of this, we're really thoughtful about who we bring on as mentors, you know, a shiny resume isn't enough, we really pay attention to people's past teaching or mentorship experiences, and how open and candid and authentic they are in reflecting on their own journeys through this defining decade.
Alexander Sarlin:It's really interesting, you know, some of our listeners at this point might be thinking, Oh, here, you know, hearing things like Stanford design school and Harvard Business School and VCs and saying, Oh, wow, this is really kind of a different level of mentorship than then they might have thought about in the past, you know, both. From the mentor perspective, you have these incredibly impressive people really successful in all sorts of ways. And then you have young people and companies like, you know, Uber and Steelcase that are looking to help these young people succeed, it all feels incredibly powerful. But as you say, not everybody has access to the same types of experiences and educational degrees, you have such an impressive pedigree yourself have been to incredible schools. And so do your mentors. Let's talk about, you know, the folks who don't have that kind of access, the type of information and the skill sets that are so transformative, you just mentioned that, you know, your mentors are trained to not assume that the mentees have access to the same things maybe they don't know, enough, you know, know people to do informational interviews with or maybe they don't have the money to go do additional training, or just the cultural capital, know where to look, tell us about 20s commitment to equity and how you're taking these, you know, this high achieving community of population, and what you're offering for people without access to this type of network.
Katie Kirsch:Sure, you know, democratizing access to incredible people is a huge part of our mission work at 20. And especially for people who are in their early to mid 20s, who are just launching their careers where knowing even just one person having one person in your corner, who's working in the industry you want to enter can really open doors and make all the difference. And so part of this is, in our work on this aligning on this mission is in how we've designed the memberships. They're designed to be really flexible so that you can meet with new people every month, and watch your network multiply. Or if you hit it off with one person, you can build a much longer term relationship, or decide the cadence that makes the most sense for checking in on your goals as you're setting them, coming up with new ideas for projects to work on or challenges that you're facing, bringing those to your mentor etc. And we're hearing a really diverse array of success stories for some people. It's getting to accepted into their top MBA program, or other people, it's launching a company or breaking into a new role getting promoted. For some people, it's, it's negotiating their starting salary and making sure that wherever they start their career, they're doing it by putting their best foot forward.
Alexander Sarlin:Gotcha. As you're working with more and more companies, and that becomes more of a channel for finding new 20 members, you're potentially you know, getting access to a wider and wider set of different types of learners who would not or might not be able to find 20. Otherwise, you know, we've talked to people on this show, like, you know, guild education or companies that are basically trying to go through companies to reach people who wouldn't have opportunities, as you expand as you grow 20. And as you get more and more folks, I'm curious how you're thinking about that type of expanded reach, and what types of new learners and new mentees that you're expecting to connect with as you grow?
Katie Kirsch:You know, it's definitely a new frontier. For us, we've been focused up until this point on really creating a powerful and transformational learning experience for the individuals we're working with. Now that individuals are getting their memberships covered by employers. And now we're taking kind of a step above that, and working directly with employers to customize programming and coaching for their employees on a larger scale, I would say it's a big piece that we're still figuring out, we are approaching things really thoughtfully, we want to partner with companies that, that share our mission that are really dedicated to enabling 20 somethings to thrive within the company. And we also know their tracking metrics really closely like retention, engagement, job satisfaction, productivity. And so I think for us, it's balancing the concrete KPIs and metrics that we know companies are tracking, which is what they're using to define where they invest limited time, resources and funds on their end, while also bringing a really human element into this, which is that the youngest employees within companies are often the most lost and confused, they need the most support, even if they're not yet operating at a management or leadership level, and quote, unquote, you know, driving the most, I don't know quantifiable success for the company. Soon enough, they will be right. And so it's about balancing those two interests and ensuring that, you know, we're keeping 20 Somethings needs and goals and desires and minds that they can even more quickly and effectively and confidently become the kind of leaders that we need for tomorrow.
Alexander Sarlin:So interesting. So what are some other ways that you're planning to democratize access to this incredibly powerful community that 20 is?
Katie Kirsch:Yeah, it's a hugely important part of our work. And something we're also still figuring out, you know, we want to set up a scholarship fund to help sponsor memberships to 20. For folks who may find the cost of membership to be a prohibitive, though, we've also, you know, worked to find kind of a membership price point that we hope isn't overly cost prohibitive in itself, especially compared to other traditional coaching, platforms and resources online. And we want to continue listening to folks to figure out what their goals and questions are, and how we can partner with the right universities, companies, etc, to make 20 even more accessible to communities that may not already be within the kinds of networks that we've built on 20.
Alexander Sarlin:Do you envision a future where you know, 20 as a benefit becomes a differentiator for employers and you know, when people are deciding what to do for internships or apprenticeships over there, for their first jobs, they say, Oh, well, this company is offering 20. So I'm going to have a mentor and I'm going to have access to this whole community. It feels like there's a potential there has that something you've thought about?
Katie Kirsch:Completely, especially within smaller companies where, you know, within larger tech companies or consulting firms, for example, they bring in large classes of interns, or analysts or associates who are all graduating from college at the same time. And so they essentially move from one building community that they had in college to another one, because they know that you know, when they joined Google, Deloitte, McKinsey, etc. They're gonna be with dozens, if not even, you know, hundreds of other people who are in their shoes, who are also starting newly at the company, they have some of the same questions. You know, this is a really different experience for people joining coming out of college and immediately joining a startup or joining a firm that only has 10 to 15 people and you're the youngest on your team. And in those cases, having a community to lean on and still feeling like you have resources and support that are dedicated to people of your age and stage of your life and career is incredibly important. And that's where I think 20 is also a really unique differentiator.
Alexander Sarlin:It's really interesting to think about it that way. This moment when people step out have, you know the education shelter that they're in, which looks different for all sorts of different people, but when they're out in, you know, quote, unquote, the real world and suddenly realize how complicated it is, and they have to deal with taxes, and they have to deal with insurance, and they have to think about all these things they've never had to think about before. I wonder if 20 could serve as a sort of transition starting even before that graduation? You know, do you envision any kind of future where people might get access to 20 in their senior year, or, you know, earlier so that they can see these mentors, they can see these other people who are on the other side of that transition?
Katie Kirsch:Definitely. I mean, what's one of the things that has surprised me actually, in launching 20, you know, we initially, I think, had the hypothesis that most of our members would be around the age of 23, or 24. They're early enough in their 20s, where any decisions or pivots that they make could transform the rest of this defining decade, but they're not so far that, you know, again, that they've already narrowed to one specific path, we found that actually, many of our members are the age that you described, they are still in college, they're not even 20. Yet, they're 18 and 19. And they're thinking ahead about how they want to navigate their 20s. And they're thinking ahead about some of the challenges or questions that may come up after they graduate. And then on the flip side, we have many members who are 29 years old. And, you know, they're looking at their birthday saying, I'm about to enter my 30s. There's a lot that I actually wish I had done maybe differently in my 20s there in a moment of reflection and figuring out, okay, how do I take the things that I've learned and done in my 20s, and apply them into this next decade of life, and many of them have just as many burning questions as the 21 year olds. So I think it's across this decade that we see questions needs and goals arise that we think 20 is well suited to answer. But, you know, it's funny, we, I mean, we named the company 20, because we wanted to focus on this decade in particular. And the irony is that right, many of our members are not even 20 yet, or they're leaving their 20s. And they still want to be part of 20. And so I think we're seeing some of these, what we used to think of as edge use cases are now becoming more of the norm within 20. And it is something that we want to design around.
Alexander Sarlin:And it's really interesting. And it makes me think of the, you know, what we were saying earlier that some people are always looking ahead, and they're anticipating what they're going to do for a job, and where they're going to live and how they're going to take care of themselves, if they're on it in their freshman year. And like you're saying they're 18 or 19, and others never think about it, they can go through their entire 20s without being like, I should probably consider what a career I want. And it's a really interesting span. And the 20s is such an unusual time for so many people. You know, I wanted to ask you a little bit about the 20 Live section of it just one more time because I think this is something that's really an unusual part of this. 20 is a community you have people you know, people can get real time help, they can connect with others in the program, and they have a dedicated mentor. People in their 20s have every different type of you know, life. Stress that you can imagine are a wide, wide variety. They are looking, there's physical health and mental health and you say, you know, as you say, impostor syndrome, and all sorts of things going on, I'm curious how you think about the 20 life section of the business and how it will continue to expand to cover you know, the massive range of different things that people in their 20s are dealing with. And of course, stay out of the psychiatry, psychology, social work, I don't think you want to be there.
Katie Kirsch:Right? It's a really important part of the work and something that we're listening to the kinds of questions and challenges that 20 Somethings are facing. And particularly in the life side, it does take time to build trust to have a conversation with someone who is new to you about some of these topics. You know, managing personal finances is one thing. Overcoming imposter syndrome is another. I mean, for some people, these conversations are feel natural and comfortable. And for others, this feels totally outside of their comfort zone. And so a big part of what we're trying to do at 20 is to make this community feel like a really safe space where you can ask not just the quote unquote, stupid questions or the beginner question, but also where you can be really honest and candid about what you're wrestling with whatever that challenge may be, and know that you have someone in your corner. We are really clear on our website and our materials in our onboarding process, our training program that 20 is not a mental health services company. We are not a substitute for therapy and we, at this point don't intend to be Right. And we know many of our mentees are coming in, they have actually a therapist that they're seeing. And they also have mentors on 20. And so we want to be really thoughtful about how we navigate the relationship between mentors and mentees, knowing that they're seeking different kinds of support in different places. And there's a line that we just we want to be both, you know, empathetic to the challenges that 20 Somethings are face, while also being really clear about what 20 is and isn't for. And so I think this will increasingly become a focus for us at 20. And it also touches on you know, you described it as something that makes 20 unique, it's actually it's something that I hope more companies do, which is just cover the career side, but also the life side, because we call it 20 work and 20 life, for the purposes of clarity at this point. But we really see these topics as being increasingly intertwined. For example, it's hard to make a decision about what job you're going to take on just considering professional factors, it will influence your personal life, it will influence your ability to have work life balance, where you spend your time who you spend your time with the culture that you're embedded in, you know, every decision you make in your career is also somewhat of a personal one, right? And so, these conversations about work, and life can't happen in silos anymore. And there are many platforms, where if you just wanted to pick someone's brain about best tips and tricks for taking the GMAT, I mean, you could do that you could, you know, book someone for an hour, find an online article, etc. But if you want to talk to someone about whether or not Business School is right for you, and if now is the right time to go to business school, and what people's genuine experiences have been, and when they understand your background and your goals, if it's a good fit for you personally or not, that's a different kind of conversation. And that's the kind of conversation we want to facilitate more of on 20. You know, not the transactional just info or knowledge gathering, but the more genuine and authentic relationship and community building, and, you know, digging into topics that that may not have as clear cut of an answer upfront ones that you really need to talk through your own personal and professional goals, to figure out what's right. And 20 is becoming a resource for that.
Alexander Sarlin:I think for this generation, in particular, the line between their choices for work and their choices for life is much less compartmentalized than it has been for previous generations, you see surveys all the time about people wanting to work in fields that align with their values are that they value, you know, flexibility and the ability to work from home or take time for their own interests as one of the number one things they're looking for in a job. And I think there's just a whole different relationship to work that you're seeing with recent college graduates. So I think that approach you're talking about makes a ton of sense. And I think I'm sure it already resonates with a lot of your mentees who say, you know whether or not it's in their comfort zone to talk about impostor syndrome, they know that these pieces all go together, and that what you choose to do for work doesn't live in a silo and not affect your, the rest of your life.
Katie Kirsch:It definitely it's, you know, these conversations are not easy. And we need way more places to navigate them. You know, it's, I think, this crossover between work and life. It's like, you know, historically, we'd go to a career coach just for career related things, maybe a life coach for more life, things, whatever that means. And then we'd go to a therapist for mental health and personal wellbeing support. And in the future, I think these areas just become much more integrated. And it's that intersection that is really interesting to us at 20. Yeah, when people are
Alexander Sarlin:bringing their identities to work in ways that they never did in the past as well. It's just it's a really interesting changing time. And I think you're, you've got your finger on the pulse of something really interesting about the future of work and what it means to sort of be taken care of by your employer. So we always end the podcast with two questions. And one is, what do you see as one of the most exciting trends in the EdTech landscape right now, specifically, you know, from your perspective as the founder of 20. So
Katie Kirsch:it would be remiss not to mention AI, it's inevitably disrupting education, the job market, the way we work, how we collaborate, everything. But one other trend that I'm particularly interested in from the perspective of 20 is this rise of Tik Tok and other social media platforms has created a shift in who we trust and listen to, you know, historically, many people used to see learning as this mandatory chore of sitting in a stuffy classroom and listening to a lecture and taking notes. But now learning is ubiquitous. It's lifelong. It's dynamic. It comes from people just like you who are recording themselves as they walk down the street telling you the things that they wish they had known, you know, when they were earlier in their careers. And in this changing face of social media and how we learn and obtain information, you know, we really get to choose who we want our teachers to be. And that's through the people we follow on social media, it's through the people that we engage with in our communities, which are going both digital and in person. We all have this agency that we didn't really have before. And, you know, I'm a firm believer, I always have something to learn from everyone around me. Many people on 20 feel the same way. And it's a trend that we're following. Because I think in part, it points to the importance of authenticity, and finding people who aren't just teaching us because they are a formal lecture at a university or they have a PhD and XY and Z. But because they are relatable, they get what it was like to be in our shoes, they are willing to give really authentic and candid advice and feedback. And these are the kinds of people we meet on Tik Tok. And these are the kinds of people I hope people are meeting on 20.
Alexander Sarlin:That's a really interesting thing to call out. You know, there was a survey I think just a couple of months ago that basically says more than half of college students use tick tock as part of their homework. A significant portion say they learn more from tick tock than from their traditional classes. It's really interesting to think about what that means for the shift. I have that number here. More than half of college students say they learn more on tick tock than in school of this group. 28% say they learned somewhat more 15% learn much more than they learned in the classroom. Those are a big change. That's pretty wild.
Katie Kirsch:It's striking. And it also is, you know, is that all good information? Is it right in front, you know, like, what exactly are they learning on Tik Tok? I think we're all still figuring that out for the first time. It's like, what are the trends around how Tik Tok and other social platforms are being used? What kind of content is mostly getting consumed? If it totally goes against what you're learning in school? Like, where do people really turn that and and so I think we're at a real inflection point. But the takeaway for 20 and for me, as a founder, I think, is is really embracing this desire to learn from people who authentically are sharing their experiences, and to create that same level of candor 120
Alexander Sarlin:Yeah, there's nobody you trust more than somebody who's been in your shoes. And you'd have gone through the same experience, and then come out the other side, and they're right on the other side, it's such an interesting type of person to learn from. And then what is a resource that you would recommend for somebody who wants to learn more about any of the topics we discussed today?
Katie Kirsch:Okay, I have two. And they're both books that have definitely inspired and challenged me in my 20s. And that we often recommend to new 20 members. The first is the defining decade by Meg Jay. The second is what I wish I knew when I was 20, by Tina Seelig. And I think both of these books really speak to how much we learn and grow in our 20s, in particular, and about the pressures and opportunities that are inherent in this decade. There is some polarizing feedback in these books. And there are some really profound and insightful elements that I think people pull from them. So I list these two, not because I believe every single thing that's in these books, but because I think they really reflect just how complicated and interesting and transformational your 20s can really be.
Alexander Sarlin:Phenomenal. So that's the defining decade. And what I wish I knew when I was 20. We'll put links to those in the show notes. As always, by the way, so Katie, if you are somebody listening to this podcast, you might want to be a 20 mentor. Or if you're somebody working at a company who says, oh, man, I wish my company had had a 24 hits a young employees, what should they do to get in touch with you and find out more about 20?
Katie Kirsch:Reach out to me at hello at 20 dot team, or DM me on LinkedIn? Yeah, come follow us. Come join us. Yeah, I'd love to meet with anyone who's listening here who may be interested in what we're building. And yeah, we're always looking for additional mentors companies to partner with who share our mission. So yeah, thank you for helping us spread the word
Alexander Sarlin:wonderful graduation season. It's a perfect time for people to start thinking about what happens after graduation. That big mysterious abyss Katie Kirsch, founder and CEO of 20. Thanks so much for being here with us on At Tech insiders. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to this episode of Ed Tech insiders. If you liked the podcast, remember to rate it and share it with others in the EdTech community. For those who want even more edtech insider subscribe to the free edtech insiders newsletter Come on substack